#37 – Staying Social, Staying Sharp: Gail Zugerman On Growing Older With Gusto

Gail Zugerman [00:00:04]:
Thank you, Ryan, for having me. I’m excited to talk to you.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:07]:
Oh, same here. Now, you host your own podcast called Growing Older With Gusto.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:11]:
Correct.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:12]:
So you’re kind of a pro. So it’s very nice to have someone on the other side of the mic who knows what they’re doing.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:18]:
It’s nice to be on the other side of the mic, too.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:20]:
Yeah, you get to sit in the passenger seat and actually look out and see what’s going on here.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:25]:
Exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:26]:
So just so people at home have an idea of your podcast, it’s called Growing Older With Gusto. You are an experienced moderator, facilitator, and interviewer.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:35]:
Correct.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:35]:
And you spent the majority of your career as an independent qualitative marketing research consultant.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:41]:
Correct.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:41]:
In medical business to business, consumer markets with older populations. And that sort of provided you a springboard for showing the way our brains are wired to continue growing our entire lives instead of just becoming stagnant.

Gail Zugerman [00:00:55]:
Right? Well, we hope. I mean, there are people, I guess, that do that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:59]:
That’s what we found, is the people that do that are less likely to be happy. That’s right, yeah. In your own life, now that the spotlight’s on you, do you consider yourself retired?

Gail Zugerman [00:01:10]:
Well, I guess in the sense of, am I actively making money through a job? I would say, if that’s your definition of retirement, I guess I am, But I like to think of it as rewiring instead of retiring. And what I mean by that is you have to move forward and think about what else can you do to be positive and productive and connect with people and use your skillset. And I think that makes her happiness.

Ryan Doolittle [00:01:37]:
You know, the springboarding from your career to this, was that immediate, or did it took you a while to realize that?

Gail Zugerman [00:01:44]:
No, it was not immediate. Took a while. And I know other people, especially women in my position, my age, who got to a certain point and they said, now what? And what happened was, I was on a trip with my husband, Charles, and I was listening to a podcast by Katie Couric, whom I met in New York at a book signing years ago. And I really admire her. And I thought, wow, she’s trying to run through myself. You know, I think I could do this. And so I had been writing and blogging, and I called my tutor for blogging, and I said, scott, can you tutor me on podcasting? I think I wanna start a podcast. And he said, sure.

Gail Zugerman [00:02:23]:
So I went to meet him. He was in his late 30s at the time, had a big job in Chicago in marketing. And at the end of our tutoring session, he said, I don’t wanna charge you. I would like to be partners with you. So I said, wow, yeah, that’d be great. So that’s how it all started.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:40]:
So you. You were doing the podcast and he was helping you? He wasn’t like, no, no, I hadn’t even started.

Gail Zugerman [00:02:46]:
I really didn’t know anything about how to do a podcast. I know how to talk to people and interview and write questions and write, but I didn’t know the technical part of it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:55]:
Well, I would argue that the part you knew is the most important part. But, yeah, if you don’t know any technical stuff, no one’s going to hear what you’re saying. Right?

Gail Zugerman [00:03:03]:
Yeah. And, you know, my husband always jokes, how’d you get along without me being your tech assistant? I don’t know. I did, but here I am. So it’s just not my skill set, let’s put it that way.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:14]:
Yeah, exactly. When you wanted to retire, how did you know the date and when it was time to at least do something else?

Gail Zugerman [00:03:22]:
My industry was changing a lot. The marketing research industry was changing. A lot of it was online. I didn’t want to sit at my computer all day. I also didn’t want to continue to travel as much as I had been traveling. I just think the industry was changing in ways that I didn’t want to keep doing it, and I wanted to spend more time with my husband. And my bonus daughter lives in Chicago, and I wanted to look for something different, but it just took a while to figure it out. It wasn’t a date, but being married and my husband deciding when to retire sort of move things along.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:54]:
You mentioned a bonus daughter. I didn’t know what that meant.

Gail Zugerman [00:03:58]:
Oh, she’s actually my stepdaughter. Her mother passed away, unfortunately, when she was young, and I became her, what I call, bonus mother. I don’t like the term stepmother, because certain people think of the fairy tale of the evil stepmother, so that’s where I came up with that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:16]:
Okay, so you’re a bonus mother and you’re also a grandmother, I think, right?

Gail Zugerman [00:04:20]:
I am. I have a bonus son who lives in Arizona, and we have two granddaughters, Addie and Lexi, who are 12 and 16 now.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:29]:
Oh, wow. Congratulations.

Gail Zugerman [00:04:31]:
Yeah, they. Thank you. Yeah, they grow up fast.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:35]:
So there in Arizona, you spend time in Florida and Chicago. And where did you say your bonus daughter lives?

Gail Zugerman [00:04:40]:
Ashley is in Chicago.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:42]:
Ashley. Okay. Our research shows that the happiest retirees tend to live near at least one of their adult children. So congrats. You hit the mark.

Gail Zugerman [00:04:52]:
Well, you know, I also read on the other to be a little bit contrary, that sometimes you don’t know where your kids or your grandchildren are going to end up. So you could move somewhere and then they don’t end up living there.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:04]:
That’s very true. Or I’ve also heard some people move to live with their kids, but that if that’s the only person they know in the whole city, that can be tricky, too.

Gail Zugerman [00:05:12]:
Correct. Yeah, everybody, you know, your kids have their own lives, your grown kids, and we have our lives, and we try our best to see everybody as much as we can.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:21]:
So, yeah, now that I have a son, I’m finding myself thinking, I don’t want you to have your own life.

Gail Zugerman [00:05:27]:
Oh, how old’s your son, Ryan?

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:28]:
He’s. He’s only two.

Gail Zugerman [00:05:30]:
Oh, that’s. That’s so nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:32]:
So you live in Chicago and Florida. How does that work?

Gail Zugerman [00:05:35]:
Florida is now our primary residence. So we’re there from October, November through till mid June. Then we come back to Chicago and we spend time. And it’s nice because I can see Ashley more often and my friends and enjoy Chicago, which was home to both of us for 46 years. And then we usually take a trip, like in October, and then we go back to Florida for eight months.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:59]:
For eight months. So are the summer months in Chicago, since it would be too cold otherwise?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:04]:
Correct. Yeah. Chicago is great. It’s a great city in the summer. In the fall is nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:09]:
I have heard that Chicago in the summer is pretty remarkable.

Gail Zugerman [00:06:13]:
It is. We’re. We’re downtown, we’re in the city. We’re near the lake. You get the breeze off the lake. It’s much cooler than probably in the suburbs. There’s a lot of activity every weekend. We have nascar, we have Lollapaloosa, we’ve got the air show, you name it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:29]:
What part of town is that by the lake? Is it one of the loops?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:32]:
No, no, we’re not in the. No, we’re not in the Loop. We’re in an area called Streeterville.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:36]:
Okay, and when you’re in Florida, what part of Florida is that?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:39]:
We’re in southern Florida on the east coast.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:42]:
Is that Miami or north of that?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:44]:
It’s north of Miami, about an hour and a half north of Miami on the East Coast.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:48]:
Okay, and do you enjoy the weather down there?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:51]:
Oh, very much so. It’s beautiful. Yeah. And it’s cool. It’s. I mean, we have a fireplace in our home. It does get cool.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:58]:
Oh, it gets that cold?

Gail Zugerman [00:06:59]:
Oh, yes, in the winter. Last winter was pretty chilly. I don’t mean cold like Chicago cold, but no, you know, I know you’re in la.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:07]:
Yeah, I’m in la.

Gail Zugerman [00:07:08]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:09]:
So, you know, I get a little spoiled and I. A lot of my co workers are in Atlanta and I went to visit in April and I was saying, hey, the weather here is great. And they were like, well, you know, wait a couple months, it gets pretty hot. But speaking of traveling, that’s one of your passions, isn’t it?

Gail Zugerman [00:07:25]:
It certainly is. It always has been. I traveled a lot with my family when I was growing up and probably the only reason my parents let me skip school was to leave early on a trip. And then when I got into my market research career, I traveled a lot. I traveled like sometimes 70% of the year. I was traveling.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:46]:
Oh, my gosh.

Gail Zugerman [00:07:47]:
And then when I met my husband, he likes to travel. So that’s one of our passions and things we love to do together and plan and go. It’s been great.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:56]:
How cool that you both love it because a lot of times maybe one person likes traveling and the other one doesn’t.

Gail Zugerman [00:08:03]:
Right. I’m very fortunate. I really, I have a great marriage and we have a lot of things we like to do together. We get along well and I know there are couples where one, like people like to travel a certain way and the other doesn’t. That makes it a little problematic. So, yeah, I feel very blessed.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:22]:
Yeah, my wife loves traveling and I like it too. But I also have that moment on the trip where I think I’m really ready for my bed, you know, I’m really ready to be home. But tell me some of the places that you’ve been. It sounds like you’ve been all over.

Gail Zugerman [00:08:36]:
Well, let’s see. If you asked me my favorite city in the world, I would tell you Sydney, Australia.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:41]:
Oh, really?

Gail Zugerman [00:08:43]:
And reason I say Sydney, Australia is you have everything there. You’ve got water, you’ve got mountains, you’ve got sophistication, you’ve got an opera house that’s amazing, good food, and most importantly, the people are so nice and everybody moves slowly and everybody is really kind. And that’s why Sydney, Australia is my favorite place. In fact, if it were close to the United States, we jokingly said that we would move there instead of Florida.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:08]:
I. So I. Yeah, I’ve never been to Australia. I would love to go, but I don’t Hear as many people cite that as their favorite. So that’s good to know.

Gail Zugerman [00:09:15]:
I mean, aside from Sydney, the most exotic place I’ve ever been is Istanbul, Turkey.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:22]:
Oh, Turkey. Okay, tell me about Turkey.

Gail Zugerman [00:09:26]:
It’s amazing. It’s so different. You hear the chanting. The people are different. They’re dressed differently. What you see is different. The food is different. It’s not as Americanized as, let’s say, Hong Kong.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:38]:
It seems like Turkey is not Europe, but it’s kind of on the border.

Gail Zugerman [00:09:43]:
It is. It is. Part of it is and part of it isn’t.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:46]:
So it probably has a really cool blend of cultures.

Gail Zugerman [00:09:49]:
Oh, the vibe is amazing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:51]:
Yeah. And if I went there and. And I continued calling Istanbul Constantinople, would people look at me funny?

Gail Zugerman [00:09:58]:
You sound like my husband. Partner. Who was 10 years older than my husband.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:03]:
I just want to show them that I know the history of it, you know?

Gail Zugerman [00:10:06]:
I know you wouldn’t do that, Ryan.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:08]:
So some other great core pursuits that you have are Pilates, walking, swimming, biking, and golf.

Gail Zugerman [00:10:16]:
Yes.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:16]:
Tell me, how did those get into your life?

Gail Zugerman [00:10:18]:
Well, I started Pilates a few years ago because I encountered some spinal issues, severe spinal stenosis. And I was told that this would be really great for my back. So I’ve been doing it. I love it. I mean, I’m really kind of addicted to it. It’s. It’s just a wonderful way to exercise as you grow older.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:37]:
Yeah.

Gail Zugerman [00:10:38]:
So I do that twice a week.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:40]:
Man, I wish I were addicted to Pilates because I feel like I’d have a very strong core.

Gail Zugerman [00:10:44]:
Well, I. I did yoga for many years. Since. I can’t tell. I don’t want to tell you how many years, but a lot of years since high school. And I. I nearly did yoga until we moved to Florida, and then I just got out of it a little bit, and now I’m doing Pilates, and I’m really mindful of my back because I don’t want to tweak it in a way that I can’t walk or bike or swim or do the things I like or play golf. So that’s how I got into Pilates golf I took up when we moved to Florida.

Gail Zugerman [00:11:11]:
Because you can’t live where we live and not play golf.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:13]:
Right. It’s against the law.

Gail Zugerman [00:11:15]:
It is a lot of fun. It’s very social. You meet a lot of people. It could be frustrating, but it’s really nice to be outside, and it’s beautiful, and. I don’t know. I love it. Even though it’s frustrating, it’s still a good frustration, and it plays into the whole idea of how to grow older.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:33]:
I played golf when I was younger, and I remember getting so frustrated that I was. I stopped having fun, and I didn’t play for years. And then about a year ago, I went out and I just had the attitude of I’m not good and I don’t care, and I actually played better than I had in the past.

Gail Zugerman [00:11:49]:
You know, that’s. The whole thing is to be calm and relaxed. In my husband Charlie, and I always say that when you’re relaxed and you’re not stressing out or getting upset, you tend to play better. Yeah, it’s an interesting thing, for sure.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:04]:
It’s one of the most mental games.

Gail Zugerman [00:12:07]:
Yes.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:07]:
Yeah, I really think it is, because you can practice all your skills, but if you’re about to putt and your mind is racing, it can still be really hard to make the shot.

Gail Zugerman [00:12:16]:
Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:17]:
One other core pursuit you have, which is a huge one, is podcasting. So I think this is a good chance for you to tell us about your podcast, Growing Older with Gusto.

Gail Zugerman [00:12:26]:
Yes, I am passionate about it. I love to meet people from all over the world that have reached out to me or I’ve been given their names. And I love to talk with people who are growing older in a positive way to help younger people realize that they don’t need to be afraid of growing older. I think in our society, particularly in the United States, there’s so much emphasis on you and not so much on older people. By that, I probably mean anybody older than myself right now. You know, sometimes people that are older get thrown under the bus. Now, that’s not to say I can’t learn from younger people, and I do. And I like having all ages in my circle of people that I’m in touch with.

Gail Zugerman [00:13:06]:
But I started this podcast because I wanted to give a voice and a forum to people who are growing older in a positive and productive way and who want to come on and talk. And. Yeah, so that’s how it started. And then people reached out to me who are younger but who are helping people to grow older with gusto. So I have those people on also because I think that’s important.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:27]:
Oh, for sure. That’s an interesting angle. So you have more than one generation coming in to talk to you.

Gail Zugerman [00:13:34]:
Used to be 75 plus.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:36]:
Okay.

Gail Zugerman [00:13:37]:
And now I’m a little bit more encompassing of different age groups.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:41]:
Okay. You. You sort of open the door more to.

Gail Zugerman [00:13:44]:
Right. As time went on my original podcast partner, I realized that a Lot of these people have similarities in how they’re leading their lives and how they became the way they are, which is kind of interesting. And I will say here that diet is important, exercise is important, but having social connections as you grow older is really. They found through research and through the people I’ve talked, the most important thing. And you don’t need to have like a hundred people that you’re in touch with, but it’s important to have a circle of people that you see with great regularity and not just talk to on the phone, but really see in person.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:20]:
Also, we found a similar thing where. And we’ve also noticed that it’s a little harder for men as they age to stay connected socially than it is for women.

Gail Zugerman [00:14:30]:
It is, Absolutely. You’re absolutely 100% right. Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:34]:
I mean, in fact, we had even talked to somebody who. It was a. I can’t remember his name now, but he was a scientist and he had studied primates, and he said that they had a similar dynamic with the men, the older primates. The men had a harder time.

Gail Zugerman [00:14:51]:
Interesting. That is fascinating. Wow.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:55]:
You have a golfing group and two book clubs. I think that’s how you say connected.

Gail Zugerman [00:14:59]:
Right. This year I’ll be in two book clubs. I started to play canast a little bit, even though I. Kicking and screaming into playing cards because I, you know. But it’s fun, you know, it’s nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:08]:
Yeah.

Gail Zugerman [00:15:09]:
In the golf. I’m in a golf league, so I meet people and I’m in some golf groups, and it’s not. It’s nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:15]:
My mom’s been in a bridge group for my entire life, and I. The funniest thing, I didn’t realize until later what that said about the socialization, but they rarely even play bridge. It’s. It’s just more about meeting up, you know, that’s what makes them happy.

Gail Zugerman [00:15:30]:
That’s nice. Yeah, that’s really nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:32]:
The cards are just an excuse. I mean, for you, it sounds like you’re actually playing canasta.

Gail Zugerman [00:15:37]:
Well, we are. I’m trying, you know, so I’m new at it, but it is fun. It is kind of a fun game, and it enables me to meet a new group of people sometimes also in the community where I live, so.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:48]:
And why two book clubs is that? Because one is in Chicago and one’s in Florida.

Gail Zugerman [00:15:52]:
I actually, I’m out of the ones in Chicago because I’m just not here that long, and I like to read on my own in the summer, and I’m traveling. I am in one, and it’s more open, and they meet for dinner, lunch, or whatever, and you do drop in or whatever, and the other one will be like a smaller group, and we’ll go to each other’s homes, and it’s new for this year, so that’ll be nice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:12]:
So you have a big group and then a more intimate book club group.

Gail Zugerman [00:16:15]:
Exactly. Man.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:16]:
I, I joined a book club once, and I only lasted about three books. I, I, I’m jealous that you’re, you have the, the discipline.

Gail Zugerman [00:16:24]:
If the larger book club is selecting a book that I think I want to read, then I’ll read it and I’ll go. If I’m, if I’m free that particular date, you know, you never help.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:35]:
Yeah. Okay. So in addition to social groups, we find that the happiest retirees live with a sense of purpose.

Gail Zugerman [00:16:44]:
That’s absolutely right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:45]:
You definitely seem to. I was really impressed to see you’re involved in events to raise money for pancreatic cancer research.

Gail Zugerman [00:16:52]:
Yes, I, I’ve been doing that for many years, like, almost 25 years. And continue to do that while my husband and I started a walk in conjunction with the Lust Darton foundation in New York. That’s the largest organization to raise money for research dollars for PAT Pancreatic cancer research. They invited us to start a walk in Chicago, and when they came back to me with two other families to help, I said, okay. So we started that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:17]:
Yeah.

Gail Zugerman [00:17:17]:
And there were walks all over the country. Now it was a smaller cancer many years ago. So while I was living in Chicago full time, I did create different fundraisers to raise money in different ways. And Florida, I go to their walk in West Palm Beach.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:34]:
So I didn’t realize the numbers were on the rise for pancreatic cancer.

Gail Zugerman [00:17:38]:
They are. So I’m not sure why that is. It just seems that everybody around me, I’m hearing of a brother, sister or husband or whatever, so. It used to be thought of as an older disease or people got it when they were much older, but now people are getting it much younger.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:54]:
How did you say it got on your radar?

Gail Zugerman [00:17:57]:
My mother. Yeah. Was diagnosed on 9, 11, so, um. Oh, yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:01]:
Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh.

Gail Zugerman [00:18:03]:
That was not a good day. No. Not a good day for the family, so. Or for anybody, for that matter. So I, I got involved.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:10]:
Yeah. Okay. And you stuck with it.

Gail Zugerman [00:18:12]:
I did.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:13]:
You seem to have some resilience.

Gail Zugerman [00:18:15]:
It’s just another passion to hopefully find a cure. Unfortunately, I lost my brother 2 years ago also to that cancer and other people and I, you know, hopefully hoping for a cure sooner rather than later. I think they’ve made some strides as far as hopefully having a blood test available soon for people to figure out if they might be candidates. And they’re all. They’re using artificial intelligence also, which I don’t know a lot about that I’m going to learn more about it, but.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:46]:
Hopefully it’s good to hear when artificial intelligence is being used for something positive because I know there’s plenty of negative examples.

Gail Zugerman [00:18:54]:
Exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:55]:
That’s great that you’re doing that. And we can put the site up, if you want, on our page for people in case people want to go and make donations.

Gail Zugerman [00:19:03]:
Oh, thank you. That would be great.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:05]:
In terms of getting older, limitations is a word that’s brought up a lot. I’ve heard people go both ways. I had one guy who said, no, I actually love being old. I mean, I didn’t say it that way. He said it that way, and he was just raving about how great it was. So I wanted to find out what you not. I’m not saying you’re old. I’m just saying as you get older.

Gail Zugerman [00:19:28]:
I think that there are probably less limitations because I feel I have more freedom now to do really what I want and spend more time with my husband and my family and my friends and learn new things that I might not have had time for when I was working. I think as long as you have your health, you’re okay. And as you get older and past a certain age threshold and you lose people, you realize how important your health is. So that is another passion of, you know, maintaining my health. And I’m blessed with good health as we speak. So I’m very happy about that. And in fact, I had a exercise instructor who used to always say, remember, your health is your wealth.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:09]:
Oh, that’s a great one. Yeah, that’s a great line. Yeah. You have mentioned that the mind is a powerful instrument, and that has something to do with limitations, I’m guessing.

Gail Zugerman [00:20:19]:
I think that people think that they can’t learn at an older age, but I took up the piano when I was older. I never took piano lessons when I was younger, really. And no, it’s one thing I didn’t do. And I always thought it would be fun. And my husband had a really nice piano when I met him, and I said, don’t sell that. I started taking lessons and I really loved it. It wasn’t probably easy as it would have been if I had been younger, but I could still do it and I could still, if I practiced, become pretty good.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:51]:
Yeah, exactly. Why? Why is there some arbitrary time where it’s too late? Right. I mean, do it whatever.

Gail Zugerman [00:20:56]:
I think it’s a mindset. I think some people, you know, you’ve heard of people being an old 60 and a young 60 or a old 70 or a young 70. And a lot of it, when I talk about in your brain, it’s not only being able to learn new things, but it’s also, do you see the glasses half empty or half full? Do you think that there’s more to do and see and you want to do it all while you can and enjoy it, or do you want to focus on maybe what you don’t feel well about? Yeah, I mean, the brain is elastic. I think science has shown that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:31]:
Well, Gail, what advice would you have for someone who is either looking toward retirement or in retirement and not enjoying it? I mean, what. What could you teach them that that could help them be as happy as you are?

Gail Zugerman [00:21:42]:
Well, one of the things that I did when I was in qualitative marketing research was a projective technique where we did mind mapping where we wrote down things. And I found it in my own personal life to be really effective because whatever you write down, you end up doing, whether it’s your to do list and you write it down and. And you do it. Things you want to do in one day, let’s say. But as far as retirement, I think it would be helpful.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:07]:
So did you do that when you were retiring?

Gail Zugerman [00:22:09]:
I think I did. I. Every year, instead of writing New Year’s resolutions, I started doing mind mapping, like what I wanted to do and achieve in different spheres of my life, whether it’s physical, social, personal, career, whatever. And it does help. It gives you a plan and it puts it. Something goes into your brain when you do that and you find that you do it. It’s interesting.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:30]:
Well, is there anything else you’d want to say about your show or about what you’ve learned or anything inspirational?

Gail Zugerman [00:22:38]:
It’s good to enjoy something in every day, no matter how bad your day might become for whatever reason. We all have ups and downs in life, and I think you just have to see the good in every day and that we’re all still here, alive and hopefully healthy.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:54]:
Yeah.

Gail Zugerman [00:22:55]:
Find what really drives you and something that you really want to do. Because usually when people work and are really successful, they don’t really look at it as work. It’s more like a passion. And they enjoy doing. And that comes through to people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:07]:
No, definitely.

Gail Zugerman [00:23:08]:
And so it’s not like they dread going in. I mean, there might be certain things they don’t like about what they’re doing, but it’s a small part of the whole picture.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:16]:
Yeah, exactly. You know, I’ve had jobs where I just couldn’t wait to get out of there. And but what I do now, I mean, I would have the thought of, well, why, why do I have to leave? I like this, you know, So I, you know, I would imagine it’s a, it’s a, it’s finding that.

Gail Zugerman [00:23:30]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:31]:
Gail Zugerman, host of Growing Older With Gusto, thank you for helping turn around misconceptions about the aging process and the later stage of our lives. And thank you for coming on my show.

Gail Zugerman [00:23:41]:
Oh, thank you, Ryan. It’s been a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.