#41 – Retirement’s New Era: How to Thrive in a Life Chapter That Never Existed Before

Eric Thurman [00:00:09]:
Well, I am happy to meet you and to talk about the theme. I’m very taken with the whole subject these days. I’ve been smitten with a lot of age myself, so I’m trying to learn how to make the most of it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:23]:
You have a quote that I, at least from my research, it seems like you’re a fan of, and I really like that. It’s from Oliver Wendell Holmes Senior. He said, many people die with their music still in them. Why is this so? Too often it is because they are always getting ready to live. Before they know it, time runs out.

Eric Thurman [00:00:41]:
See, I like the idea of making a little distinction between living and life. Oh, that people sometimes get fixated that I just want to have a longevity. I want to live, I don’t want to die. Well, that’s a natural instinct. In fact, just a little brain science here is our brains are wired to do one thing, and that’s to protect the animal and to keep you alive. And that’s the first job your brain has. And so your instinct, if anything seems threatening, you know, you’re going to set up defenses and look for options. What can I do about it and protect myself? Because that’s the brain’s number one job.

Eric Thurman [00:01:18]:
It can help you be smart for other things later. But that’s its first job. But we have more to us than just our intellectual. And I think what we want to do is not only have years, but we want to have life in those years. So it’s not how long you live, but it’s how much life do you have in your years. And while you’re at it, it’s a good idea to stretch those years as long as you can. But yes, I will volunteer a piece of personal philosophy on why I think people struggle in this season. And I think it’s partly because it’s never happened in human history before.

Eric Thurman [00:01:53]:
There have been typically two seasons of life, childhood and adulthood. But now, if you were retiring at 65, you’ve got somewhere between 20, 25, 30 years further to live. That’s a whole nother season of life. And if you go back a hundred years, that didn’t exist. People died shortly after they quit working. And so how to live, that is something that’s worth exploring. And I think you are a virtuous guy to be promoting the Cause and talking about it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:24]:
Well, thank you.

Eric Thurman [00:02:25]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:25]:
I guess before you could sort of just coast, now you got a whole third quarter to go.

Eric Thurman [00:02:31]:
Yes, yes, exactly. Well, you said an important word there. How do you coast? You can only coast if you’re going downhill. You can only coast on a decline.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:43]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:02:44]:
And so I think there’s almost an anger that is good to have well up at people to say, hey, I don’t want to go on a decline. And a lot of it’s within your power.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:54]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:02:55]:
So let’s figure out how to make the most of this season of life. It’s a bonus season, so whole nother period of life.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:02]:
Yeah. I just had an image of a retiree rollerblading downhill.

Eric Thurman [00:03:06]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:07]:
Decline. And that’s not.

Eric Thurman [00:03:08]:
Look out for the trees.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So in your own life, your background’s in journalism. Could you quickly tell me like, what you did during your primary working years?

Eric Thurman [00:03:19]:
Well, journalism and I also had an entrepreneurial disease, which I really had an instinct that I think was God given to figure out how to organize and start things and the rest. And so, yes, I did have a couple of different enterprises. And I worked at CBS News and was an executive there and then started a syndicated news service. And that led me to starting a television production company. Back before you could do it on your laptop or your smartphone, because there weren’t even smartphones then.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:53]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:03:53]:
On the side I was very interested in nonprofit work and I wound up getting recruited to become CEO at an organization, international organization called Opportunity International. Ah. That did microfinance, you know, that got people out of poverty. And we were in 17 countries when I became CEO and were 27 when I left. Then I got recruited to start another similar organization called Hope International. It’s now in about 27 countries. And again, I’m old as Methuselah, so I’ve got a lot of history here.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:28]:
I love it.

Eric Thurman [00:04:28]:
And I was recruited to. I’m so glad you do. I don’t think I can go back and change it. So then I was recruited to run essentially a foundation for a couple of multi billionaires. And we placed grants of various kinds in half of the countries of the year of the world. And then my last big stretch was I was hired by an organization that I set up a program for children at risk, which is a clinical cold term for street kids and orphans and that sort of thing that got used and, well, still being used in probably 45 countries. And.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:10]:
And you wrote this whole program or you came up with it?

Eric Thurman [00:05:14]:
Well, I was President or CEO in each of these situations. So what happened was taking that one. The organization is called David C. Cook. It was started after the Great Chicago Fire and became a major publishing house for Sunday school curriculum. In fact, at one time, almost half of the churches in America used David Seacoek curriculum. Then they were trying to figure out how to spread similar resources around the world. And the answer wasn’t to send around the usual stuff because the audience was so totally different and their experiences were different.

Eric Thurman [00:05:50]:
And we identified that the greatest need was with broken kids. So let’s take an example. If a child is orphaned in India, for example, the popular notion is you want to set up orphanages. If it’s an orphan, they need an orphanage. Right. They need a reliable building over their head, a place to sleep and three square meals, and education. Right, right. That’s not their greatest need.

Eric Thurman [00:06:16]:
Wow. Their greatest need is somebody to be bonded to them as a surrogate parent. Please. Their greatest need is an emotional need. And there’s been all kinds of scientific research done on this that shows that if a child could miss a meal a day, if they’re. They know that they’re in a family unit, that somebody cares about them and they’ll be okay. But if you. You can have them well fed and in an institution, and they’ll literally die because the human being needs that connection.

Eric Thurman [00:06:52]:
So what we set up was a program that deals with a lot of life skills, but a lot of it was around the emotional breakage.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:00]:
So. So are. Are you saying it’s more important for a human being to know that someone is worrying about them eating than it is for them to actually eat?

Eric Thurman [00:07:08]:
Mm, that’s well said. It’s true. It’s actually true.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:12]:
That is interesting. You know, I have heard stories about babies and orphanages, and they need people just to come in and hold them, otherwise they’ll die.

Eric Thurman [00:07:20]:
Yes.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:20]:
I don’t know if that’s the same thing.

Eric Thurman [00:07:21]:
Yes, that was some research that was done, oh, probably 80 years ago with monkeys, and they found that baby monkeys would die. And then they found out it was true of children, too.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:34]:
Oh, my God.

Eric Thurman [00:07:35]:
Yeah. So anyway, I started to say what today is. There’s 150,000 kids a week in India that are in the. That’s daily. Not daily. It’s twice a week club meetings that are. The mechanism kind of is play therapy to help them deal with these issues and. And learn how to find attachments and connections.

Eric Thurman [00:07:58]:
It’s all built around psychology, which is called attachment theory.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:02]:
So you see, you this Is your, this was your career was helping children.

Eric Thurman [00:08:07]:
And so, okay, what did I do? I’m a great organizer and strategist and can build teams. And so David C. Cook was expert at curriculum. So they knew how to take a body of knowledge and put it into accessible experiences and programs. So but they didn’t know what to do that with. So I did two things. I first did field research because that’s what I got really good at with our grant making. And we learned how to assess the effectiveness of interventions.

Eric Thurman [00:08:40]:
And so I did research into what kinds of needs were out there. And the thing that I heard loudly was street kids, that people of good character, and these are mostly local churches, were aware of the problem. They didn’t know what to do and they knew that just housing and feeding kids alone wasn’t the solution. They, that there was kids were still exhibiting all kinds of brokenness. So with that information, I then cataloged 80 or 90 specific evidences acting out of where the brokenness was expressing itself, and then sought out people who were effective at intervening in that. And then once we identified what the interventions were, then the curriculum people at Cook went to work, made it a program. And there’s about 450 sessions that cover the whole gamut of things that a person needs to behold that you would get in a normal, healthy family, but you don’t get in those kinds of situations.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:41]:
Well, this sounds like very rewarding work. It wasn’t.

Eric Thurman [00:09:45]:
Oh, fantastic.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:46]:
Okay, so. So when you retired, was it because a lot of people don’t have a rewarding job, so when they retire they’re looking forward to finally being able to do something like that. But you were also still working really hard. So what was that like? Did you leave to retire knowing you still wanted to do some of that or you were ready to get out of there, or how does that work?

Eric Thurman [00:10:08]:
Yeah, see, I think that you’re hitting on a really critical juncture right here, and that is the transition from stage two to stage three of life.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:17]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:10:18]:
And that can happen at very various ages. A lot of women especially experience this when the empty nest happens.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:24]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:10:25]:
Because their identity has been very strong with family and child rearing. It can happen with men too. But frankly, women tend to be more relational in many cases, so they feel that men can have it happen at any age. It certainly can happen with men or women if they step out of a long term career. For all of us, it’s important to figure out where a meaningful heart connection is. And I was so fortunate because I Had that. So when it comes to being retired, I have mixed feelings about the word. One part of me uses the word all the time because it’s the only vernacular term that everybody understands what we mean.

Eric Thurman [00:11:08]:
So I like to talk about it more as retirement season than actually retiring. I like that because when I retire a pair of shoes, that means I’m throwing them away, I’m discarding them.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:17]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:11:19]:
I don’t, I don’t want to be discarded.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:21]:
No.

Eric Thurman [00:11:21]:
So, no. Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:23]:
You want to go into the trendy thrift store of life. That’s how, you know.

Eric Thurman [00:11:30]:
Jimmy Carter wrote a. A book and he said that. And I don’t know if I totally agree, but again, I want to absorb things that I might not totally agree with. But he was saying that there are two great points of freedom in life. One is when you leave home as a teenager, whether to go to college or to go out on your own or whatever it is. But, you know, you’re starting to redirect your life and you’re not under parental control. So that’s when. The other one is when you retire because suddenly your schedule opens up and you have a lot of options.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:05]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:12:05]:
But I think the important thing is what you hit a moment ago is don’t have an expectation. You’re just going to coast.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:11]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:12:12]:
You know, if all you do is move from the bed to the sofa. And that’s your day.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:19]:
Right. And I think a lot of retire or people who are going to retire thought that’s all that would take. Oh, I don’t have to work. I’m going to be happy.

Eric Thurman [00:12:27]:
Well, that’s another key word. And that’s the thesis why I wrote my first book. I wrote my second book. My first one is about microfinance. But this book, Thrive in Retirement, which is available wherever books are sold. So what happened was I went through a series of major changes in my late 60s. When I turned 65, I was in India with a group of major donors looking at the programs that I set up there for the street kids. And I didn’t want to have a party because I was trying to keep it quiet that I was turning 65.

Eric Thurman [00:13:03]:
I didn’t want donors to back off, but they were real nice about it anyway.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:07]:
Okay.

Eric Thurman [00:13:07]:
And the organization had asked me for my ten year plan. Okay. This is good. And I probably would have stayed there for 10 years except for a couple of things. One of them was my wife died.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:18]:
Oh, man.

Eric Thurman [00:13:19]:
And so I had a transition there.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:21]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:13:22]:
And the situation changed with the organization that we had A parting of ways. Cordial. But it was still. It was time for me to stop expanding anymore. They were at capacity for what they were able to do. And so I did find myself with a big change. I was going from where I was traveling internationally to 12 to 15 countries a year to suddenly, was I going to go from the bed to the sofa?

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:48]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:13:48]:
You know, every day it was a whiplash of stop.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:52]:
Yeah. You weren’t even coasting downhill. You were just standing still.

Eric Thurman [00:13:56]:
Kind of. Yeah. Big, big change. And in my case, it was so confrontational because I lost my wife.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:04]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:14:05]:
And it changed out of the type of career I’d had for years that I had to make a decision. Was I going to shut down or was I going to reinvent myself? Those were the only two choices.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:16]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:14:17]:
And so I chose to reinvent myself. I had to figure it out. And so the first thing I had to do is figure out how does life work now? And when I started asking people around, they came up with the magic word you used. Happy. I don’t know what I’m going to do, but I just want to be happy.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:37]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:14:37]:
And so that sent me exploring the thought of what produces happiness. And I’ve concluded that there’s only three categories of things that produce happiness. And that’s the thesis of the book, which is purpose, pleasure and peace. Ah. So peace isn’t just the absence of conflict, but it’s actually the, the language of the, the Bible in the Old Testament, Shalom, which is a sense of well being. It’s not just the absence of conflict.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:06]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:15:06]:
It’s that, you know, things are the way they ought to be. You know, I’m where I belong and I fit and, you know, everybody fits around me and you know, life, life is good. So pleasure isn’t the hedonistic sort of thing, but it’s the sort of thing if you have the right hobby. Let’s say you’re your musician or you’re a wood carver or something and you get caught up and you’re doing it and you realize it’s suddenly 2am in the morning. You lost track of time because you’re so into it. It was so satisfying.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:34]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:15:35]:
It’s that kind of a pleasure that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:37]:
That fits so well. I’m sorry to interrupt, but that I just have to say that fits so well with, with. We talk about core pursuits and, and there are these hobbies on, on steroids that you. They kind of get you out of bed.

Eric Thurman [00:15:48]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then the third one, the third P is Purpose and purpose trumps them all. You know, we’ve heard the, the stories of a car hits a child and a 92 pound mother runs out on the street and picks up the car and moves it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:09]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:16:10]:
Um, because there’s purpose there and when you have purpose, that will trump everything.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:16]:
Yeah. I’ve been thinking a lot about purpose lately. I, I was just talking to someone who has a, a book coming out about it and it really is a driving force.

Eric Thurman [00:16:25]:
It is, it is. Yeah. I wouldn’t want to say that all three of the P’s purpose, pleasure and peace are equal. I think purpose is 50% or more. You can take people who have purpose and there’s any number of things that can be wrong with them.

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:44]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:16:44]:
Victor Frankl, he found that if people had purpose, they would survive. If they didn’t have purpose, they’d roll over, face the wall and die. You know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:16:53]:
Yeah. I don’t. It makes me. This is way less profound than Victor Frankl. I’m just thinking of a line from that movie the Matrix where they say the, the body cannot live without the mind.

Eric Thurman [00:17:03]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:04]:
That’s Morpheus. Maybe Morpheus and Victor Frankl were friends.

Eric Thurman [00:17:07]:
Well, I, I like the movie too. It was, it was a good one. Yeah. But I think that these are good things just to muse about. Some people have found meaning and, you know, doing things like caring for abandoned animals or something like that. And I, I’m certainly not going to criticize any of that. That’s good.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:26]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:17:27]:
But for most people, I think a huge element that is critical is to have connection with other people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:36]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:17:37]:
That purpose is going to always be involved with other people because we are social creatures and even if we think we’re introverts, and I am an introvert.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:46]:
Frankly, but same here. And that’s something that I struggle with. And I can never remember the exact scenario, but Wes Moss, who I work with, he interviewed a neuroscientist who, they had studied primates and said even with primates this happens where the male primates get worse at socializing as they get older. And I know with me, I find myself thinking I’ll just stay home. And my wife has to sort of coax me out and then I have a good time when I go, that type of thing. So, yeah, I don’t know what it is. But without. But whenever I do go socialize with people I truly love, I come back feeling happier.

Eric Thurman [00:18:28]:
I think that would be a good hour we could spend on that. And I think you’re right. When you said it was a neuroscientist. Because we have learned so much about the brain in the last 10, 20 years, and I think the brain science stuff is just superb, fascinating. And that ties in with some of the things I’ve invested myself in because I’m still involved with trauma interventions and in the developing world.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:56]:
Oh, you are?

Eric Thurman [00:18:57]:
Oh, yeah, very much so. I. I consult an organization called Reclaim Life, and they’re. They’re dealing with that. That sort of thing all the time. And it’s. It’s still a big part of, like, children’s program that I’ve. And I’m still consulting that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:12]:
So what did that help you in this difficult transition was to stay plugged into some of the things you were doing?

Eric Thurman [00:19:20]:
Yeah, yeah. It’s my big satisfiers in life. I’ve remarried, and I’m very, very grateful for that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:27]:
Okay.

Eric Thurman [00:19:28]:
And my wife is wonderful. And one of the things that we have built a lot of shared interest in is around brain science and the various kinds of interventions that help people cultivate this side of their personalities.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:42]:
Ah.

Eric Thurman [00:19:43]:
And I’ll just throw in another word if people want to go Googling away or looking at YouTube clips or the rest. The. The theory is called attachment theory. Okay. It’s the number one concept in my mind around emotional health is if until I have deep connection with a few people, I’m not. You don’t have to be lifetime bosom buddies with everybody you meet. There are gregarious people that are like that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:10]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:20:11]:
But you. Every brain person, I think, needs at least two or three. I have a couple of men who have been friends for decades, and we are zooming together because we’re no longer living in the same city, but we zoom together a few times a month. Oh. And they. They know intimately what’s going on with me, and I know with them. And, boy, the trust level is really high. Contrast this with what’s happening with so many people in the retirement season of Life that about 40% are not just lonely, they’re clinically depressed.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:52]:
Really? It goes that far?

Eric Thurman [00:20:55]:
That’s the data. And the evidence of that gets shown in curious ways. Like one things that I’ve noticed of late in the last few years is how many people die with no memorial service at all.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:09]:
Really?

Eric Thurman [00:21:10]:
No funeral, no memorial service. They don’t have enough deep connections. You need other people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:16]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:21:17]:
Health and happiness is tied to that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:21]:
We’ve surveyed a lot of retirees across the country, and our studies found that the happiest retirees had at least Three close connections.

Eric Thurman [00:21:31]:
That sounds right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:32]:
Yeah. It sounds like that’s about what you were saying.

Eric Thurman [00:21:34]:
A lot of research has happened that reinforces exactly that. I think you’re right on target.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:39]:
Yeah. Well, tell me. So this is usually a good sign, but I can’t quite tell if you are retired or not. Do you, do you consider yourself retired?

Eric Thurman [00:21:52]:
Ah, I. Like you’re asking the question that way. It’s a fair question.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:57]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:21:58]:
And the answer is yes and no.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:00]:
Okay.

Eric Thurman [00:22:00]:
I am in a whole. I’m deeply in that other season of life. I am in that retired season of life. Am I busy? Yes. I’ve already had a couple of meetings this morning where it’s much more a mentoring and personal strength sort of interactions. I mentioned my. My wife now of 10 years that our common interest is this sort of thing. She’s pursuing it as spiritual direction.

Eric Thurman [00:22:30]:
I don’t know if you’re familiar with that term.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:32]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:22:32]:
But she’s had four years of training with that and she has clients and that sort of thing. That. So that’s a one on one connection. As people are trying to work through these identity questions. Don’t let outside forces, whether they’re political or anything else, make your identity. You’ve got to find it deep within yourself. And that’s. A good spiritual director can help you do that.

Eric Thurman [00:22:55]:
And, and I think it is a spiritual issue as far as I’m concerned. Yeah. And these things in my case, I’m doing sometimes organizational coaching that are related to ministry type programs, trauma interventions and poverty interventions and that sort of thing. To answer your question succinctly, am I retired? Yes. In the concept of. I can put that in forms if I get asked what I’m doing. But what has happened is my work has changed.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:29]:
Yeah. So it’s almost like retirement is your secret cover story.

Eric Thurman [00:23:35]:
I like that. I like that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:37]:
Yeah. No, I get. But a lot of the retirees that I talk to that are happy have that same thing where they’re more busy than they’ve ever been, but they’re doing things they want to do when they want to do them.

Eric Thurman [00:23:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn’t say my calendar is overpowered, although it gets a little cramped at times. But what is new for me that I’m absolutely loving is the level of connection with people is far more intimate.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:05]:
I’m feeling a theme that comes out of some of the stories you tell that quality is more important than quantity. But quality can also lead to quantity. Right. Because you, the, the more quality life you have, the longer you’ll live well.

Eric Thurman [00:24:21]:
That’s actually been proven. Oh. They’re the longest longitudinal large human well being study. It’s called the human flourishing study. It’s been done at Harvard and it’s been going on for I think 80 years, something like that. Oh, they’re following the same group of people and there’s a guy named Tyler Vanderweed. Actually this is all written about in my book by the way.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:42]:
Oh great. Everyone go pick up the book.

Eric Thurman [00:24:46]:
That he is a. He’s a guy’s got like three PhDs, but he’s, he’s a neurostatistician I think is. Or a biostatistician.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:56]:
Okay.

Eric Thurman [00:24:56]:
And he’s found things that people who have these kinds of connections do live longer. And he, he’s traced to the most common thread is people who have a weekly or more often connection with a faith community, a church.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:13]:
Interesting.

Eric Thurman [00:25:14]:
And that, that, that they live on average, I think it’s seven years longer. And it even has case he looked at some data that like cancer and heart recovery is 20% better in that group, even if you’re not counting that God may have done a miracle, you know.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:33]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:25:34]:
But just people who have that kind of well being and attachment again. Yeah. So yes, what you’re saying in principle is well researched from some of the best research that’s ever been done. And you know Harvard’s no lightweight.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:47]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:25:47]:
Can I offer one other thing?

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:49]:
Sure.

Eric Thurman [00:25:50]:
Before we wrap up, which is I have a free quiz I developed around this. Oh. If you want to do a self assessment.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:56]:
Yeah.

Eric Thurman [00:25:57]:
It’s online. It’s a kind of a variation on the game 20 Questions. It’s called 20 Quiz 2o Q I Z dot com.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:04]:
Okay.

Eric Thurman [00:26:05]:
And it’s, it’s private. And you know, you don’t have to join anything or the rest just go take the quiz. It’ll give you an immediate feedback and you’ll find out which of the categories of life you’re strong in, which could be strengthened. And I think it helps people as a starting point. But I think the real thing is to have something to live for and that involves someone. It doesn’t mean you have to have a new romance. I mean I’m thankful that I’ve got a new mate, but I think the principles stand true. Even if I had not remarried, we still need people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:41]:
Right.

Eric Thurman [00:26:42]:
Well.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:43]:
So wait, what exactly does 20 quiz tell you about yourself?

Eric Thurman [00:26:47]:
Well, what it does is I look at life as being five parts. Your mind, your body, your finances, your relationships and your soul. And so what it does. It takes those five parts of life and overlays it with the purpose, pleasure, peace. And so the questions are, how do purpose, pleasure, and peace get expressed in these five categories? And where are you strong? Where could you gain some ground? And so that’s the point of the quiz.

Ryan Doolittle [00:27:20]:
Oh, that’s very fascinating. Yeah, that seems. I can see why that would help someone find direction. And. And where to. Well, let me. This is a little bit of a lighter topic, but it’s something we really care about on this show, the core pursuits. So your.

Ryan Doolittle [00:27:34]:
Your super activities, your hobbies on steroids. What. What are some of yours?

Eric Thurman [00:27:39]:
Well, one is avoiding snow.

Ryan Doolittle [00:27:41]:
Oh, okay.

Eric Thurman [00:27:43]:
I. I lived in Chicago for years, and that’s a bustling, energetic city. And there was a lot of good stuff, good experiences there, but the nasty weather I couldn’t take. So my wife and I moved to a suburb of Las Vegas. I’m trying to enjoy the moment. I was so much a builder in the nonprofit organizations and the businesses I owned that I was always thinking about the future. And one of the things that has changed me is I’m living much more in the present on a hobby basis because I was involved in new media and so forth. I love tech, and I’m fascinated by what’s happened with AI and how.

Eric Thurman [00:28:26]:
How fast it’s changing. But then the. The number one thing that I’m involved in, and it’s where my strongest passion is. It’s what’s going on inside me and other people. Oh, okay. Because that’s. That’s where life is lived. What distinguishes us from every other creature is what’s happening inside.

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:45]:
Huh. Well, that is certainly a deeper answer than saying you like playing tennis or golf. Let me ask, what advice do you have for someone who might be thinking about retiring or maybe they did retire and they’re just. It’s not going as they wanted it to.

Eric Thurman [00:29:04]:
Yeah. Well, the first thing I would say is getting some recovery time or deep vacationing or restoration is normal, and it’s good. So no criticism. For somebody who takes six months or two or three years to just kick back and spend a lot of time on the sofa, you know, whatever they need, just realize that shouldn’t be the last chapter of your story. Figure out what the last chapter of your story is, and it. It’s going to be happy if you have purpose, pleasure, and peace, but it’s going to be purpose is going to drive it more.

Ryan Doolittle [00:29:46]:
Eric Thurman, thank you so much for coming on the Happiest Retirees podcast and sharing such a wide range of knowledge and wisdom with us.

Eric Thurman [00:29:54]:
It was my pleasure.