#54 – How Inflation, Tariffs, and New Rules Are Shaping Your Money in 2025

Wes Moss [00:00:59]:
What a week with We’ve got less worry. I actually was writing in a market update this week. I called it Tariffs and TikTok because that is still very relevant. There’s a lot to tariffs and a lot to TikTok and the market reacted in a lot of ways to that this week. We, we, we saw the new policies. Well by the way, welcome and he’s at least you say hello.

Jeff Lloyd [00:01:23]:
Thanks for having me back. I gotta say, almost wore shorts into the studio today with just because it wasn’t reaching the 40s or maybe into the 50. At least it wasn’t 13 degrees outside.

Wes Moss [00:01:34]:
Yeah, we had it really is. It’s kind of a fascinating thing how quickly the city shuts down and because I spend some time I was up in Michigan over the winter break a little bit and we got tons of snow and nothing really shut down and it’s almost though the way I look at it is that sure you get more plowing and you get more salt up there, but it’s almost like the snow stays snow and you can just drive on the snow here for some reason even though it was so cold this week, the way we get the snowstorms, it just falls, melts just a little bit and then freezes. I mean I it was Tuesday, this past Tuesday when it all started and I was driving in here to the studio and my neighborhood people were already stuck and couldn’t get up hills. It’s, it’s something about the way we get our snowstorms here falls. We get a quarter of an inch or a half an inch, it immediately melts and it turns everything to an ice hockey rink. It’s just and you really can’t drive. It’s not like the packed snow from the a lot of the places up north. So it’s just a very unique climate.

Wes Moss [00:02:39]:
When we do get freezing stuff and the kids are out of school. Two days this week. APS was out Tuesday, Wednesday anyway. Yeah, it’s good to have that in our rear view mirror.

Jeff Lloyd [00:02:50]:
And this snowstorm was a little unique, meaning everything south of Atlanta got snow, which is nuts.

Wes Moss [00:02:56]:
And that never happens normally. That Louisiana, four inches of snow.

Jeff Lloyd [00:03:01]:
Oh, they had blizzards in New Orleans, Mobile and 30A had 4 inches.

Wes Moss [00:03:07]:
Wait till we start hearing calls for global cooling.

Jeff Lloyd [00:03:10]:
I’ve seen the headlines already, Wes. I’ve seen the headlines already. Have you really?

Wes Moss [00:03:15]:
No kidding, I was making that up. But again a lot of news is just made up. So it’s not that out of far afield. You know, it’s not made up. Couple brand new all time highs this week in markets and we’re picking up where we left off in 2024 here in 2025. We had 57 of them last year and we already starting on some new, plowing new ground higher which always makes people a little nervous.

Jeff Lloyd [00:03:40]:
Yeah, we’ve already seen a couple of new all time highs this past week. And remember this was the first week of trading under a new administration as well.

Wes Moss [00:03:49]:
Well, the one thing that you brought this to my attention late this week and it was about the Fed. So the Fed is meeting this Wednesday. It’s their 29th meeting or January 29th. The FOMC Federal Open Market Committee, they’re going to make another decision on interest rates. You can go to the CME Fed Watch Tool where we find the probability of what the market’s thinking is going to happen. And it’s essentially at a 99% chance that the Fed will do nothing at this meeting. Meaning they’re not. And do nothing’s maybe the wrong word.

Wes Moss [00:04:20]:
It’s they’re not going to lower rates, but they’re not going to raise rates. And that’s really just a function of we. Unemployment rate still is markedly low at 4.1% CPI. This one’s a little tougher. Jeff Lloyd is that inflation is sure the rates come down but it’s still not fully under control. It feels like the doors open and it’s like when you’re, you know that you’ve got your dog on and you put the leash down before you go to walk. Next thing you know like is the dog going to escape or not? And that’s what I’m worried about with inflation. Is dog going to run out of the house and we’re going to get inflation back or, or not.

Jeff Lloyd [00:05:00]:
Remember the Fed has talked about a 2% inflation target that they wanted to hit, we’ve said on the show over the last couple of years now, you know, we’ve talked a lot about inflation over the years. We’ve talked about does that 2% target, does that mean 2.0? Because right now we’re at, we’re at 2.9%. So we’re in the twos.

Wes Moss [00:05:22]:
Is it chiseled in stone at 2? Oh, and the answer is probably not. It’s, it’s a, it’s a range, I think. And, and we’re. We’re not at 2.1, we’re 2.9. We’re closer to 3.3than we are too. So remember what happened when it came to Rates Cove, essentially when Covid hit. We are already had pretty low rates in 2019. They were 2.2%.

Wes Moss [00:05:45]:
Then Covid came and we essentially took them to all the way down to nothing. They went to zero. And then we, we had this long period of time with, with zero rates. The, the ZIRP policy, which made mortgage rates feel like they were almost free. 2.35% locked that in for 30 years. And then starting in March, the Fed said, wait a minute, we’re starting to get some inflation. And then it got even worse. And that’s when it was every single meeting a quarter of a percent, 50%.

Wes Moss [00:06:17]:
Three quarters, three quarters, three quarters. And we ended up at five and a quarter, five to five and a quarter, five and a half by July of 2023. And then everything got more expensive in the world. Then we talked about, or the Federal Reserve essentially talked about lowering rates and because inflation got under control, signs of job market slowing down. And so they talked about starting to lower rates. They didn’t do it, Jeff, until when they didn’t start doing the lowering.

Jeff Lloyd [00:06:51]:
They didn’t start cutting rates until September of 2024. And me and you were joking about this when we were looking through this data, it seems like they started cutting rates a lot longer than just September of 2024.

Wes Moss [00:07:07]:
But it’s. I thought, well, yeah, September 23rd. No, it was September 24th. They just started. They just started lowering rates is really our point here.

Jeff Lloyd [00:07:15]:
But it’s because they were in that holding pattern for 14 months from July of 2023 to September of 2024.

Wes Moss [00:07:23]:
Well, here’s probably what’s even more fascinating. And here we are today, essentially 1% lower than the new target range for the Federal Reserve. Five and a quarter to five and a half. So it’s always a zone. It’s not an exact number. So let’s Just call it. We’ve gone from 5 and a half down to 4 and a half 1%, 100 basis points. What’s crazy about this is that mortgage rates were 6% when they started to cut and now they’re a full 1% higher four months later.

Wes Moss [00:07:52]:
So the Fed cut 100, 101% and rates went up 1%. The treasury was at 3.6% back in September. Today it’s more like 4.6%. That’s pretty remarkable that the Fed is cutting, yet interest rates are going up. And really the reasoning or how that can mechanically work is that the short end, the yield market, the interest rate market, that impacts our lives, credit cards, mortgage rates, it makes everything more or less expensive. A lot of that is tied to what the 10 year treasury rate is. Mortgage rates play off the 10 year, they don’t play off the Fed funds rate which is a very short term rate. Think of it as a 30 day window rate.

Wes Moss [00:08:36]:
So a money market can have high rates, but the Fed is the rates we care about, you and I care about as consumers really tied to the 10 year. So what’s happening is the Fed has been lowering the very short term rates. If you look at it this chart instead, just the left side of the, of the interest rate chart is coming down and that’s what they control the bond market and trillions of dollars worth of investments. That impacts the rest of what we call the yield curve, which is where rates for 2 year and 5 year and 10 year and 30 year fixed income and again that’s what sets rates. Why do we care and what does this mean? I think it means a lot for investors who are, who have diversification outside of equities, right outside of stocks. If you were to ask me where are we going to make the most money over the next 10 years and 20 years and 30 years, I’m always going to say equities S&P 500 hard hard to go be find something better than being fully invested in markets over time. However, that doesn’t work for everyone, particularly as you get into retirement and you want some safety and stability. So what is kind of the next fundamental building block of a portfolio usually is we’re looking at fixed income in the fixed income market.

Wes Moss [00:09:51]:
And there’s a saying within fixed income that yield is destiny, meaning that wherever you start with interest rates, that’s a good predicate for where your bond returns are gonna be. And here we are with a ten year treasury around four and a half floating between and it’s been moving A lot. But most of this year it’s been in the 4 1/2 to 5% range. Well, guess what, that is probably good news for bond investors because rates are back to a more normal level. They’re paying us something. I mean, 4 to 5% is not nothing at all. And that I believe really sets the tone to have fixed income or bonds have a nice return. Are they gonna match stock returns over time? Probably not.

Wes Moss [00:10:37]:
And historically they have not. The only time bonds beat stocks typically is when the stock market’s down a bunch and bonds aren’t. That’s why we own both as an offset and a ballast.

Jeff Lloyd [00:10:48]:
Well, just think from a fixed income and bond side of the portfolio, three years ago when interest rates were basically at zero, you weren’t getting a lot in terms of interest or coupon payments, at least from bonds from the federal government. Whether that was a six month treasury treasuries. Treasuries, whether it was six months, one year, 10 year, 30 year, you weren’t getting much interest payment from those.

Wes Moss [00:11:16]:
And now we’re getting a decent level. We’re getting a decent level. The other thing was remarkable this week. This goes back to the fly in any investment soup is uncertainty and we always have some of it at varying levels. But President Trump has been very out front in saying we’re going to do a bunch of tariffs. Okay, well how much is that going to be and is he going to announce it on day one? And when he kind of had his inauguration speech and then started doing executive orders at the beginning of the week, the market kind of had this sigh of relief that, oh, we’re not getting blanket tariffs at least today right now on everyone. He talked about 25% tariffs potentially for Mexico and Canada. He talked about adding another 10% in tariffs on China.

Wes Moss [00:12:00]:
But what’s he doing? These are negotiating tools. Hey, maybe we, if you, if, if we can control the flow of fentanyl, maybe I won’t do tariffs from China. If you can make a deal with us on TikTok so that we can own at least part of TikTok or 50% or more here in the United States, or maybe the whole thing, then maybe we’ll, we’ll, we won’t put tariffs on. But I’m giving you a February 1st date. Again, another negotiating tactic here to say, look, I’m going to do the, I’m going to start slapping tariffs off if, on, on you as a country unless you start playing ball with what we want. Again, very real tool negotiating. But the market liked the Fact that he didn’t just start out with a bunch of blanket tariffs and that’s why we saw some huge up days for stocks this past week. Jeff, do you have any teachers in your life, in your family, the extended family that you love?

Jeff Lloyd [00:12:54]:
My beloved sister in law.

Wes Moss [00:12:56]:
Oh yeah. Okay.

Jeff Lloyd [00:12:57]:
She is, she’s a college counselor at a high school. So getting kids ready to go to college.

Wes Moss [00:13:02]:
All right. Do you know if she, is she part of the state pension system or is she in a private scenario?

Jeff Lloyd [00:13:11]:
I’m not actually sure you really do love. But I have my homework for later this afternoon.

Wes Moss [00:13:17]:
Yeah, we were just talking about you and well, the reason I bring that up. So we all have a teacher in our lives that we love. Teacher in our family that we probably love for the most part. I have fond memories of my teachers in grade school and high school for the the most part. I work with a lot of families that have teachers and, and this doesn’t just apply to teachers. Reason I bring this up. This is a, I wrote this article for Forbes and I title it a Game Changing Social Security Boost for Teachers and Public Workers. So think anybody gets a pension? Think work for the state, state, state government, local government or state and local governments.

Wes Moss [00:14:00]:
Think firefighters, police, nurses. Now not every, some nurses are in different scenarios, but if you’ve been in a pension system and then you also worked outside the pension system and have Social Security, you’ve been either facing some really big penalties on what you would normally get for Social Security or you’re in retirement, you were a teacher, you’re getting a pension now and you’re in your Social Security payments have been getting hit. I’ve seen this for years and it’s a, it’s a point of frustration. And there are two pieces of this. One is called the windfall elimination provision or the wep. And I’m going to be talking about this all year. So this is because this is such a big deal and it’s going to play itself out over the next couple of months and then the government pension offset, the WEP is a, is a penalty on your current Social Security if you’re looking at your benefit. If you’re getting a pension, they do a formula and let’s call it round numbers.

Wes Moss [00:14:57]:
I’ve seen it knock 50% off payments. So if you’re, you’re a teacher and you’re supposed to get a thousand bucks a month in regular Social Security, but because you have a pension, it’s knocking it down to 500 and it’s been doing that forever. That just got eliminated. And it didn’t get eliminated. It’s not just that. Those payments now will go up by 400 or 500 bucks per month for life. You also get last year. Again, I haven’t heard anybody get a check yet because this is brand new.

Wes Moss [00:15:26]:
It only happened a couple of weeks ago, but it’s retroactive for 20, 24. So if you’re owed 500 bucks, 500 times 12, you’re talking about 6 grand in a check to make up for last year. So wep, which is a windfall elimination provision, eliminated. The GPO is the government pension offset, works on your spousal benefit. So if you were supposed to get spouse 1200 bucks a month in your Social Security because you’ve earned that through the Social Security system and. But you have a pension, let’s call it $3,000 a month, your whole Social Security gets wiped out. So instead of getting 1200 bucks, you’re getting zero again. That’s going away.

Wes Moss [00:16:04]:
So that your payment may go from 0 up to 1200 bucks plus 1200 times 12 for last year. This is a big deal for almost 3 million Americans. We’ll be talking about this Social Security Fairness act is what it’s called. It’s brand new into law. We’ll be talking about this thing all year. More money matters. We’re talking inflation, tariffs straight ahead. If you’ve ever done a Jane Fonda workout or if you remember as a kid, Rocky running the steps, and if Michael keaton is still Mr.

Wes Moss [00:16:36]:
Mom to you, then guess what? It’s officially time to do some retirement planning. It’s Wes Moss from Money Matters. Weren’t those the good old days? Well, with a little bit of retirement planning, there are plenty of good days ahead. Schedule an appointment with our team today@yourwealth.com that’s y o u r your wealth dot com. We’re talking inflation. Jeff Lloyd and I wanted to talk a little bit about housing and some tariffs. So where do you want to start? You tell me. Inflation, housing tariffs.

Jeff Lloyd [00:17:12]:
Let’s start with inflation. We got the Fed meeting coming up and we were talking earlier in the show about the Fed has a 99% chance that they’re just gonna leave rates where they are, right where they are. They’re not gonna cut again. They’re just gonna hold em as is. And one of the reasons that they’re holding is because we’ve seen inflation just tick up just a little bit.

Wes Moss [00:17:36]:
Right? So it’s come a long way. And this is still the analogy we were Using earlier in the show, which was inflation’s pretty much under control. Like, just like you’ve put your dog, your leash on your dog, ready to go for a walk. And you. And this is, I think happened to me. That’s why I visualize it this way. Then you put the leash down, dog stand at the door, you go somewhere else to go, maybe get a glass of water, and one of the kids opens up the door and you’re like, wait a minute, Cody, come back out the door. That’s kind of.

Wes Moss [00:18:04]:
The dog is standing at the door. It’s not ready to run out. But it also could. Right. The kid could leave the door open. And that’s why I’m worried about inflation going back into a place that we don’t want. And so we got an inflation report about a week and a half ago where inflation is dropped. Well, first of all, we all remember the 9%, plus that for CPI, which was just brutal.

Wes Moss [00:18:30]:
And we saw essentially 20% inflation for everything. Got 20% more expensive over the course of about two years, two and a half years. And those prices are here to stay. They’re coming down. But where the rate is still a little bit sticky, even though we’re down to 2.9%. Housing and services, and we’re a service economy. And if you think the last time we went to a restaurant, remember what a restaurant costs and the service to then pay at a restaurant and think about a service like a food delivery. All that’s gotten more and more and more expensive.

Wes Moss [00:19:02]:
And the price hasn’t really. That’s where inflation’s still sticky. And the biggest culprit is housing.

Jeff Lloyd [00:19:09]:
I was signaling over to you when you said food delivery and how expensive that has gotten. Last week, my daughter and her friend wanted to DoorDash Chipotle Just two meals from where? From Chipotle.

Wes Moss [00:19:25]:
Is that how you say, is it Chipotle or Chipotle?

Jeff Lloyd [00:19:27]:
I think it’s Chipotle.

Wes Moss [00:19:29]:
Okay.

Jeff Lloyd [00:19:30]:
Do you know how much combined that.

Wes Moss [00:19:31]:
Would be if you went into the store? You’re talking about 22 bucks. If you went into the branch. The branch. The restaurant. Yeah.

Jeff Lloyd [00:19:40]:
If you went into the restaurant, it’d be about what was it to get it delivered?

Wes Moss [00:19:43]:
Chipotle.

Jeff Lloyd [00:19:43]:
It was $45. And my daughter texted me, was like, can we order no $45. That she recognized that $45 was too much. And she’s like, I can’t do this.

Wes Moss [00:19:54]:
Because it almost doubles the price because you have the delivery fee and then the service fee and the service fee on Top of the service fee and then you’re supposed to leave a tip and so they don’t forget your food or.

Jeff Lloyd [00:20:04]:
Yeah, but it could have been, it was during some bad weather, so maybe there was like some surge or something like that.

Wes Moss [00:20:11]:
Well, so we see that and we see it in services where inflation’s sticky. We see it in housing. So even though we see again that the overarching number come down, inflation cpi, Consumer Price Index, rents, they’re still going up a little faster than what we’d like to see, or owner equivalent rent, which is the housing component of that. Healthcare, childcare services, still climbing. The core inflation, that strips out food and energy. Yeah, who needs that was 3.2% last year.

Jeff Lloyd [00:20:44]:
We don’t need to eat, we don’t need power, we don’t need gas.

Wes Moss [00:20:46]:
The last print, that really irks you, doesn’t it?

Jeff Lloyd [00:20:49]:
It really does. It doesn’t seem they need another name than core inflation. Core. Because those things take out heat. Yeah.

Wes Moss [00:20:59]:
So the Fed’s stance, of course, is that inflation is mostly under control and they’re raising, raising, raising rates to kind of put the slamming the brakes on the economy to try to slow down inflation. They did that in 2223, but they only started lowering rates and they haven’t done a whole lot of lowering.

Jeff Lloyd [00:21:18]:
Just last September, September 2024, that is when they started lowering rates.

Wes Moss [00:21:25]:
So the bottom line here on inflation, yes, it made big strides taming inflation. But they’re looking at the numbers and they’re just saying, I don’t want the dog to get out of the door here. So why keep lowering to goose the economy when we’re still worried that the dog could run out. And that’s, I think, where we are. And that’s again why the CME Fed watch tool gives it a 99/ percent chance that the Fed will stay put this coming week.

Jeff Lloyd [00:21:52]:
And one of the things that you hear Fed Chairman Jerome Powell say is that the Fed is going to remain data dependent. And they love that. They love using the data to make their decisions.

Wes Moss [00:22:07]:
Now, speaking of inflation, we found a chart that shows America’s tariff increases on China and where tariffs already stand. One of the reasons the market rallied this week, we had some really strong days, is that the implementation of tariffs are less than feared, which means there may be, at least for now, seemingly a little less inflationary. But we do about, we import, call it 500 to $550 billion. So half a trillion dollars a year coming in from China into the United States. We have tariffs on about 300 billion of that. So about, let’s call it 60% of what we’re bringing in already has tariffs on it. And if you look at some of these categories like semiconductors, that was 25% and solar cells was 25% and steel aluminum prices was seven and a half, battery parts, seven and a half. So we’ve already have had tariffs for a while now on a lot of these areas.

Wes Moss [00:23:08]:
They were already set to go up in some cases to 50% without even Trump putting an additional 10% because that additional 10, at least for now isn’t happening. The market was kind of liking that and they got some certainty around the fact that we didn’t get a whole bunch of tariffs right away, day one. What we are seeing is those tariffs seem very much as a tool to negotiate with these countries. Hey, Canada, Mexico right now there’s virtually zero tariffs of any goods coming in. Well, there’s some things we want to see happen. Otherwise 25% tariff. Same thing when we’re talking to China. Hey, there’s some things like getting TikTok here to be owned in the United States, which is amazing that it’s such a big deal.

Wes Moss [00:23:55]:
It’s one of another 10 different social media companies just to just waste our time. I was so excited it was last weekend when it was supposed to go away. I was thinking economically that we’d have like a productivity boost in America. Yeah, people, what I was thinking, productivity is going to go up because TikTok’s going away.

Jeff Lloyd [00:24:13]:
People aren’t TikTok and they’re getting back to work. But the other end of that is there’s some full time workers that are full time TikTok influencers that make their living solely off TikTok.

Wes Moss [00:24:25]:
Yeah, but I mean, what is how many people really make a living doing funny dances on TikTok? I know it’s not nothing but about 100 or a thousand acts. People viewing Tick Tock and wasting their time.

Jeff Lloyd [00:24:41]:
They’re just scrolling. Most of them are just scrolling.

Wes Moss [00:24:44]:
I like what producer Mallory did. She, she thought TikTok was going away and she wanted to quit the Tick Tock habit anyway, so she deleted it this Saturday and she can’t get it back.

Jeff Lloyd [00:24:53]:
She can’t get it back. It’s not, it’s not on the app stores anymore.

Wes Moss [00:24:56]:
Good for her.

Jeff Lloyd [00:24:57]:
And how much more productive has she been? She has been so productive this past week.

Wes Moss [00:25:03]:
That’s what it is. It’s no TikTok. She has been a rock star all week.

Jeff Lloyd [00:25:08]:
Part of that army of American productivity without TikTok. Think about the army of American productivity without TikTok.

Wes Moss [00:25:16]:
So we’ll see, right? We know the Fed’s probably going to stay put. They’re still a little worried about inflation. Job market is still super strong, 4.1% unemployment rate. And the sticky part of, of inflation beyond health care services, childcare, which is not again, let’s just exclude those again, people need them is housing. And the theme there has been, we’ve been under building, first of all about 100,000 to 150,000 houses go away in any given year. They get to the point where they’re just so old they need to be torn down. Fires, floods, disrepair, disillusioned, just gone. That’s 100 plus thousand.

Wes Moss [00:26:00]:
And then through population growth and families expanding, having another kid to people get divorced or get married that the housing situation. We’ve been under building all the way since 2005. So the financial crisis hit. Great financial crisis break put the brakes on housing. And we’ve never returned to that housing equilibrium. So we still have a shortage of. So probably no real relief in sight when it comes to housing prices anytime soon though we could see lower interest rates, but it remains to be seen. You know what, Jeff Lloyd, we’ll be data dependent on that.

Wes Moss [00:26:38]:
We’ve been getting a lot of questions about crypto. Crypto, Bitcoin meme coins in the news. Really people, bitcoin has been a headline. I mean they run the ticker on CNBC just like the major averages. So it’s not some esoteric thing now. But you and I were diving in this week and just looking at criteria. What can you call an asset that is investable? Right. What makes an investable asset, Jeff Lloyd, is the way I look at that.

Wes Moss [00:27:12]:
I guess you can call anything an asset. Like a table. The table is the microphone is a, it’s an asset. But is it an investable asset? Right. And in order to make something investable, it really has to have a couple of things. It has to have five things. It’s got to have some cash flow, should be reliable, gotta have exposure to economic growth. It’s gotta give your overall portfolio some diversification.

Wes Moss [00:27:40]:
It should have some volatility dampening properties to it, meaning that you can put it in a portfolio and it doesn’t move exactly like everything else in the portfolio. And then it should be able to be a hedge against inflation or deflation. So that’s some criteria. So would you say stocks as an example? 1 through 5? How many did they get to check?

Jeff Lloyd [00:28:02]:
I Think most of them would pass five out of five.

Wes Moss [00:28:06]:
Right.

Jeff Lloyd [00:28:06]:
So stocks, they’re exposed to economic growth in general, most of them would provide reliable cash flow. It offers your portfolio some form of diversification and it adds to an overall asset allocation. It adds, yeah. And the stocks that provide cash flow is a form of hedge against inflation.

Wes Moss [00:28:30]:
So stocks, I think check every box again, not bad or good, just that’s an investable asset. Real estate, same thing. Cash flow, long term appreciation. That checks most of the boxes as well. Building collects rent. You own the building, you’re collecting the rent. Economic growth, economy gets better, the building goes up in value diversification. Sure.

Wes Moss [00:28:50]:
It’s different than stocks. It’s different from bonds. Volatility dampening. I think this real estate to some extent could be a very good volatility damper because you don’t get to see the price every single day. Even if you go to Zillow, you still don’t see a daily price. And then, yes, hedge against inflation or potentially deflation. So again, check the box. Five out of five commodities, that one’s a little tougher if you’re talking about gold.

Wes Moss [00:29:15]:
I think it checks several of these boxes, but maybe not all of the boxes. So it’s kind of somewhere in the middle. Private equity, I would say private equity is the fancier cousin of stocks. It checks all those boxes, but it leads us to cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin, still, just not. It’s hard to call it an investable asset if you have that criteria. It’s got to have three of the five on the report card. I don’t know if it has any of the five on the report card.

Wes Moss [00:29:44]:
So it’s not that I’m against it, I just find it difficult to call it an investable asset. Still something you put money in, but we can put you put money into technically almost anything you want to. That’s at least that’s my take on it. Jeff Lloyd, thanks for being here in studio, my friend.

Jeff Lloyd [00:30:00]:
Great being back. Thanks for having me and look forward to many more weeks this year with you.

Wes Moss [00:30:04]:
You can find Jeff and I@yourwealth.com have a wonderful rest of your day.

Mallory Boggs [00:30:15]:
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Mallory Boggs [00:31:03]:
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