#198 – How To Strengthen The Aging Brain with Dr. Nicole Byers

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:01:46]:
That’s right. Hi.

Wes Moss [00:01:47]:
How many feet of snow do you have on the ground?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:01:50]:
Not very much at all actually. We are in a temporary warm week, so everything is melting.

Wes Moss [00:01:57]:
What’s warm for Canada in the middle of the winter?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:01:59]:
Yeah, that’s a good question. So it’s eight celsius here, which is a little bit above freezing.

Wes Moss [00:02:05]:
Eight celsius? A little bit celsius just always sounds. It’s funny when it’s cold. Celsius. Just the word celsius seems colder than what we use, obviously. So we wanted to talk about brain health today. I want to start right out of the gate and you’ve got a really awesome TED talk that we stumbled upon a while back and we thought, well, Doctor Nicole Byers would be perfect for retire sooner podcasts. So that’s why. So thank you for coming on.

Wes Moss [00:02:35]:
One thing that strikes me is this, you make this analogy around how our brains are have so much storage, it’s the equivalent of what, 5000 iPhones? Which is just hard to fathom, but great. It makes us feel like, well, we’ve got some horsepower as humans as we worry about the world of AI taking over and replacing our brains, right? So however, it’s not always as easy. There’s not a perfect search function like we do. We have on our iPhone that can access everything that you have in the iPhone. There’s 5000 of them. So our search in recall isn’t necessarily as good as we would like. And I think we all go through this worry because we look out into our retirement years, we look into our sixties, our seventies, our eighties, and we know what happens in America. A huge percentage of folks start to have some sort of mental decline and that is always of a concern.

Wes Moss [00:03:33]:
And then you’re in your forties or your thirties and you forget something like a name or a password or something that’s seemingly really easy and you immediately start to think, wait a minute, is this the beginning of the decline? I’m only 40. What am I gonna be like when I’m 80? So I wanted to start there and give some context around the forgetfulness that we experience and then we start to extrapolate that out.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:04:02]:
Yeah, yeah, great point. I think something that’s really helpful to keep in mind is just like you said, our brains have this almost infinite storage capacity, right? We can store all this information, but lots of things will impact how easy it is to get that memory out of our brain. Even something like how tired you are that day is going to impact your memory retrieval. Things like what else you have on your brain, what else you’re thinking about at that moment can impact it. We’ve all been in those situations, for example, where we’ve been really trying hard to think about something. Maybe it’s, yeah. Passcode or a name and we just can’t think about it. And then 3 hours later you’re on your drive home and out of the blue that information comes to you.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:04:44]:
Right. It’s not always a straightforward.

Wes Moss [00:04:45]:
When you don’t need it anymore. Yes, you don’t need it anymore.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:04:49]:
Exactly right.

Wes Moss [00:04:50]:
Explain. Is there, by the way, is there any sort of, is there a name for that, like latent recall or is that just, gosh, I didn’t need to remember that, but I did.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:05:00]:
Yeah, there probably is a name for it. I don’t know it. I’m sure someone has named it, but it is a really normal, normal process, right? What kind of, how I explain it is when our brains try to think too hard about something, it kind of overloads those circuits, right? All those neurons, that’s your brain cell that are responsible for finding that information, get overworked, and they need a little bit of time to recharge and reset. So when we get into those situations, just like you said, where we make a mistake and then we start to stress about it, we start to worry about it even more. It just burns those cells out even faster. So we actually need that break for our brain to reset.

Wes Moss [00:05:39]:
How significant is it with the forgetfulness and what is natural and normal that we all should just be prepared for? And do we get, does our capacity and our memory bank shrink when we get to be in our sixties or fifties? Sixties, seventies, eighties? Or is it really the recall of that what naturally just changes as we age into retirement, do we think?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:06:07]:
Yeah, yeah, great question. So something else to keep in mind is that we don’t just have one type of memory, right? We have lots of different types of memory. Different types of memory storage. For example, we have memory for this conversation we’re having right now. My brain is actively storing in kind of my short term working memory, what you just said, thinking about what I want to answer next, thinking about other things I want to keep track of during this conversation. That’s one type of memory system. But we also have our longer term memory storage, and even that is broken up into multiple systems. We have storage for knowledge, like knowing how to use this computer system that we’re using right now or knowing how to ride a bike.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:06:49]:
We have memory storage that keeps track of events from our life. And all of these different memory systems age a little bit differently. For example, those long term storage, our memory for information, for facts, for knowledge, that actually keeps growing as we age. Probably not surprising, right? Because we keep learning. We’re always learning new information. We’re learning new things at work or even just from watching television or from listening to podcasts like that. That storage keeps growing. But other aspects of our memory tend to be a little bit less efficient as we age.

Wes Moss [00:07:25]:
So what can we do about that? I mean, is it something that is just, that’s the reality of as we age, is it dramatically different for everyone, or is there something that we can actively do to keep that shorter term recall? And by the way, so it’s shorter term recall that typically is impacted.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:07:44]:
Yeah. It’s really our brain’s kind of thinking efficiency that defines efficiency.

Wes Moss [00:07:49]:
Yeah. Not short term efficiency. Okay.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:07:51]:
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Kind of. Our speed of thinking is the biggest thing that we see decline. Even actually, from our early twenties on, our thinking speed starts to slow down a little bit. But there is some research that that’s not necessarily a bad thing. For example, there was this study done a number of years ago where they looked at medical transcriptionists. So women, older women in their sixties and seventies, who have transcribed doctor’s notes their whole life. So they were typists at first.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:08:20]:
Many years ago, they switched to a computer, and they compared these older women to 20 year old men on how fast they could type. What they found was when they were typing something new, something random instructions, for example. The 20 year old men were a lot faster. Cause that’s kind of when our thinking efficiency peaks. But when they were typing anything related to their medical work, the 60 and 70 year old women were just as fast and efficient as the young men. Because we have these other systems, we have these experiences that can help compensate for some of that normal age related decline.

Wes Moss [00:08:56]:
So is that really. It’s almost as though the medical transcriptionists have been in the gym for, they’ve worked out mentally their entire lives, and they just. They really don’t lose. They don’t lose that muscle, or they’re not losing efficiency, at least in that one particular category.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:09:13]:
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Is their brain has developed that mental muscle for doing these skills. They have formed new, really efficient brain pathways that make it easier for them. And so they can take advantage of that. And, you know, not just transcriptionists, all of us who kind of gain that expertise throughout our lives in certain skills, in certain trades, in certain areas, all of that knowledge really can be used to our advantage, even when maybe our thinking itself is less efficient or not quite as quick as it used to.

Wes Moss [00:09:43]:
Be, so we can keep up the muscle. And then, I guess if you think about it more broadly. So it’s not just so if you think about your job and your efficiency around, let’s say, being able to create within your niche that’s in your profession, that you’ve kept up your efficiency in your muscle, and then you’ve got 100 other areas as well. How do we broadly strengthen that? What’s the role of physical exercise, the role of diet, the role of, I don’t know, crossword puzzles? What is a good cross sectional training for our efficiency?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:10:20]:
Yeah, I think there’s kind of two big categories there. One is anything that benefits your physical health, especially your heart health, your cardiovascular system is really great for our brain health, especially as we age. When we are not in great heart health, when we have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, for example, we are at greater risk of kind of abnormal brain related changes as we age. Like stroke and microstrokes.

Wes Moss [00:10:47]:
Why heart? Is it just blood flow, or is it. What is it about exercise that makes our brain so much? For me, I would just say so much more relaxed. It’s an incredible thing. But as much as I don’t love going to the gym, I’m always so glad I did. I think most, a lot of people are like that. It’s an amazing relaxation, and then I think, better. But why exercise? Why does that help our brain so much?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:11:10]:
Yeah, in a few different ways. So you’re right. Exercise is a great stress management strategy for us, which helps all of us throughout our life, because our brains only have so many resources, right. When we are stressed and overwhelmed, whether that’s with work or with family or upcoming retirement that we’re thinking about. All of that takes up brain space and brain energy and makes it harder to focus, but kind of at a basic physiological level, that regular physical exercise increases blood flow to our brain, which means our brain cells are getting more oxygen that they need, they’re getting the nutrients they need, and there’s also some evidence that it increase or reduces, sorry, inflammatory processes throughout our body. So we are not getting those inflammatory reactions that can reduce the thinking of our brain cells efficiently as well.

Wes Moss [00:11:56]:
Is there an ozempic for inflammation? I guess that would be the biologics a little bit, right?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:12:04]:
That would be. That would be great. Yeah. You know, nothing, nothing great that we have kind of medicine or specific nutrients, you know, healthy, balanced diet. There is, of course, some evidence for kind of a mediterranean based diet in terms of brain health as we age. So high in, you know, omega three fish oils, high in fruits and vegetables as well, of course, is always going to be good for us.

Wes Moss [00:12:27]:
You know, when we study happy retirees, we’ve tried to figure out what they eat and don’t eat. One of the things we found that happy retirees tend not to eat fast food. Not a big shocker, but we did see a really high propensity for the mediterranean diet as a favorite for happy retirees. Again, I don’t know, causation or correlation there. I think it’s just because the mediterranean diet itself is really good. It just tastes really good, and it’s one of the few crossovers of tastes great. And we know that in a lot of ways, it is a pretty healthy way to eat.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:13:02]:
One kind of good news bite if you don’t really want to focus on healthy eating. There’s this really interesting study where they looked at individuals who lived over 90 years, and what they found is that some of those healthy habits that help us when we’re younger, we don’t really need them once we hit 90. So if you can make it to 90, for example, being a little bit overweight is also a protective factor for us. Having a little bit higher blood pressure also is a protective factor. We tend to live longer. Drinking a little bit more alcohol over 90 as well tends to be a protective factor. So there seems to be this, you know, we want to do these really healthy habits, and then if you make it to 90, you know, enjoy your life.

Wes Moss [00:13:44]:
What is that? You know, we need to, in the studio, we need to get a picture of, I never remember her name, but I remember the story of the 97, 98 year old lady who drank a miller light and a shot of whiskey every single day for the last ten years or 20 years. I can kind of see some of that. I can certainly see weight. That makes sense to me. Frailty obviously doesn’t look like it’s something that you want in your nineties, which often happens. A little bit of weight, I can see that the high blood pressure, I don’t understand. And then, but the alcohol part, I just don’t. I don’t get that.

Wes Moss [00:14:21]:
It’s a nice thing to know, though. You can drink away in your nineties. We keep hearing that inflation is coming down. For the past three years, the common man inflation gauge is still up over 20%. That’s necessities like food, gas, utilities and shelter. How can you possibly keep up? Well, one option is income investing. That’s using a combination of growing stock, dividends, bonds for more cash flow, and other areas that can be a hedge against inflation. Look, inflation is tough.

Wes Moss [00:14:49]:
Let us help you overcome it. Schedule a time directly with our team@yourwealth.com. Dot. That’s your wealth.com dot. I think the other thought here is that, and this is obviously, this peaks in the, in your working years, or maybe it peaks in your working years, but it doesn’t ever go away. And that is the efficiency, or lack thereof, of multitasking. So I want to ask about that and what that does to our memory and is it a good thing? But maybe let’s talk about stress first. And we have seen studies that show when you have some sort of anxiety, you make really bad financial decisions.

Wes Moss [00:15:34]:
If we’re scared or we’re in an anxious mode, it leads to really, it can lead to really bad money decisions. But I would suspect this is for, it’s not just that category. What is it just about stress and how much stress? Do we need to work? Is it general stress? Do you have to be in a really stressful situation before your memory starts to be taxed and you make those not so great decisions?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:15:58]:
Yeah. Our brains are really good at dealing with short term stress, right? That’s what they evolve to deal with. That’s what they handle best. Our brains are designed to help us jump out of the way if a car is zooming towards us on the street and not going to stop at the stop sign. Our brains cope really well with that kind of urgent stress. You know, that fight or flight system kicks in. It helps us move, it helps us be efficient and get out of the way. What our brains aren’t so good at dealing with is more chronic long term stress, because what can happen is our brains kind of at the biological level, they get into this long term chronic stress response, where that system in your brain that is designed to help you respond to emergencies stays activated at a low level, we get buildup of what’s called cortisol in our bodies, which is a stress hormone which we know can impact everything from our physical health, put us at increased risk of things like diabetes, heart disease, stroke.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:16:59]:
It also impacts our thinking skills, our memory, our processing speed, our problem solving skills as well. So whenever we’re in that kind of chronic stress situation, whether that’s, you know, a job where you have all these urgent deadlines and you haven’t had a day off in two years or higher, jumping back and forth, or whether you’re into retirement and you have some long term financial stress weighing on your mind, all of that can really send our brain into that chronic stress response.

Wes Moss [00:17:27]:
I guess, to some extent. We know one of the. One of the few things that really clears that would. Is exercise, right? I mean, isn’t that a huge. So getting rid of that cortisol buildup, is that, that’s part of why physical exercise? And then, as a. As a neuropsychologist, what, what else clears that? I mean, what as someone that if you were to have a prescription, a general life prescription, around reducing long term chronic stress, I know this is different for everybody, but is that, is it really healthy lifestyle, or is it. Is it therapy? Is it meditation? Is it medication? What is your take on reducing that longer term chronic stress, by the way, as a parent and a business owner and having, and being in the media and podcasts and radio, there’s almost like there’s never a time where there isn’t some level of urgency and stress. Is that okay, or should I be managing that.

Wes Moss [00:18:25]:
And should we all be managing that in an evening more deliberate way?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:18:30]:
I think in terms of the end of that question there, I think we should certainly be more aware of that chronic stress. We, like you said, are living in this modern world where we’re kind of always feeling a little bit hectic, a little bit rushed, right? A little bit like there’s never enough time. And I think we are seeing the effects of that on our health, on our wellbeing over time. Even in rises in autoimmune conditions, for example, there’s an interaction between how our immune system functions and how our stress response, and we are seeing the long term consequences of this. I think it’s good for everyone to be really aware of just how stressed, just how tense, just how overwhelmed we are in terms of things that help. Yes. Exercise, absolutely. The other one I always recommend is there’s really good research that being in nature, being around trees, getting that fresh air, provides really good benefits for our body.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:19:22]:
Stress response also can help improve our cognitive functioning as well. Even if you just have a local park with a bunch of trees by the river that you can go walk through a couple times a week, really great for your brain health.

Wes Moss [00:19:35]:
What is it about nature? I guess I wouldn’t argue with that. I think of, if I have time outside, is it just. I always think about it as I go to Michigan in the summers and spend some time there. And it’s small town life, but it’s very. There’s lots of nature. There’s nature parks all over the place, lots of trees everywhere. There’s water. You’ve got the great lakes, and there’s thousands of lakes in Michigan, and there’s something peaceful about the water.

Wes Moss [00:20:05]:
And I know that there’s research around how happiness levels rise when we were in proximity to the water from the happiness project. What is it, though? Do you have any? I always think, well, I’m able to go hang out in nature because I’m in a little less stressful position at work. And I think of it as well because I’m a little less stressed at work. I’m able to go out in nature, and that’s why I’m less stressed. But you’re saying in just nature itself, for some reason, does that. What is why? How?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:20:41]:
Yeah, I think there’s probably a few factors there as well, I’m guessing, and this is just my educated opinion here. I don’t know.

Wes Moss [00:20:49]:
Well, you’re a neuropsychologist. You’re a neuropsychologist, so I’m gonna take your guess over mine.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:20:54]:
I’m guessing there’s an evolutionary component that for thousands of years of human evolution, we did not live in concrete jungles, right. Our brains weren’t designed to live in artificial lighting and artificial central air systems and to be sitting at our desks all the time. This is not how our brains and bodies were evolved to function. And so I think that when we get back into nature, when we’re moving, usually in nature as well, it just brings back to how our brains and bodies were designed to function. I’m guessing there is also when we’re in nature, it takes a lot of that stuff out of our brain, a lot of that stuff out of our environment as well, right? We’re not looking at our phones the whole time, I’m not glued to my laptop the whole time, I’m not thinking about everything else on my to do list the whole time. And we tend to be much more present when we’re in a natural environment as well.

Wes Moss [00:21:50]:
Yeah, I was thinking of this as you’re talking that through. It’s almost like if we were fish, our natural state swimming in the water is in nature. And then all of a sudden in the last hundred, 200 years or 100 years, really bing, we’re in another fish tank. And it’s a very different kind of water. It’s just not our natural, clean, easy water. It’s dirty, it’s constantly in flux and it’s, I think, city life, right? We’re bing, bing, binging around with lights and cameras and action and phones and we’re fine in it, we can live in it. It’s not as though we’re going to suffocate, but it’s almost though you get back to where we were supposed to be and now we breathe easy and I guess there’s some evolution there. And I guess just physiologically it just feels a lot easier to be on a coast somewhere with a breeze.

Wes Moss [00:22:46]:
As opposed to downtown Calgary maybe?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:22:50]:
Yes.

Wes Moss [00:22:51]:
I don’t know how Calgary is. I’ve never been. How is Calgary as a city? What is the metropolis part like?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:22:57]:
We’re pretty lucky. There’s a beautiful river valley that runs right through downtown. You can see the mountains as well from almost everywhere in the city. So I think we’re kind of in like a natural outdoorsy. We have a bunch of quite big parks and recreational areas throughout the city too. So we’re pretty lucky there. It’s not too too city ish, but you can certainly there’s places where you walk around and you can’t see trees and you can’t see the mountains, right.

Wes Moss [00:23:19]:
Like any normal metropolis. But how about multitasking? Again, thinking about stress and thinking about these iPhones that are, you know, our brain’s supposed to be 5000 of them, but there’s this just the one actual phone that feels like it creates a lot of. Creates a lot of trouble as we’re always. I mean, we’re multi ten. We’re talking to someone, we’re texting, we’re on a Zoom call. Not that I would ever do this, but we’re in a meeting. Can they see my phone as I’m on the Zoom call and I’m texting? I mean, talk about multitasking. It’s like multi, multi, multitasking in the world we live in.

Wes Moss [00:23:55]:
You’ve studied some of this.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:23:57]:
Yeah. Really, what it comes down to is our brains can’t multitask. Not in the way that we think we can. We can. Yes. I can probably walk and chew gum at the same time without choking. But being able to divide that more complex attention, you know, responding to text messages while I’m listening in a meeting, I’m not really multitasking. What my brain is doing is shifting its focus back and forth.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:24:20]:
So I’m focusing on the text and then I’m focusing on our conversation, and then I’m back on the text, I’m back on the conversation. And every single one of those switches takes energy. We’re asking our brain to refocus on a new task. And so, not surprisingly, we see when we try and multitask, our efficiency goes down. We tend to at least lose efficiency with one task, if not both, compared to if we were just doing them on their own.

Wes Moss [00:24:47]:
What are we supposed to do? I guess to some extent, we should be more rifle focused on any given thing at any given time. And if we typically, if we actually did that, maybe if we cumulatively added up the time it takes to do all those things, it would be less than if we went throughout the day and we were having our processors do both, I guess, to some extent. And what you’re saying is we’re not multitasking. We’re just doing this rapid this and then we’re doing that and we’re doing this and we’re trying to do it in a loop, I guess.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:25:18]:
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And even things we think of as kind of pretty simple multitasking, we’re not very good at. This study is probably not surprising to anyone who’s walked behind someone who’s talking on a cell phone. But there was this other study where they looked at stride lengths. So how people walk when they’re either just walking normally or talking on a phone. And the people that were talking on the phone, their stride was more erratic. They were all over the place. They were stopping and slowing down, and they didn’t even notice when this unicycling clown came out next to them and then went away.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:25:49]:
So they’re really not doing a good job of paying attention to what’s going on when we’re multitasking.

Wes Moss [00:25:57]:
The author, Morgan Housley, he wrote about the psychology of wealth. And one of the things that he’s talked about is that, so we go back to the 1950s and then today, and we’re so much wealthier in the United States, we’re ten x wealthier than we were. But our happiness levels in general seem to actually be a little lower. Now. Maybe we didn’t measure them as much in the fifties. I’m not so sure about the data back then, but if you look at any sort of Gallup poll about work satisfaction, it’s pretty darn low. Not even a third of people really like their job, and the other two thirds are quiet quitting and then loud quitting, which means they really want to get out of their job or do the very least amount possible. And what Housel says around that is that we’ve moved so much to a server every year over the last century, we’ve moved more and more and more to service.

Wes Moss [00:26:46]:
And when you go from, let’s call it manufacturing, I could be somewhere make something during the day, and then when my shift is done, I go home and there’s just, you don’t think about, there’s nothing else to do because I got to go back to work in order to get picked back up. But as time has gone on now, we’re all thinking, the more people in this economy that are service oriented, the more people that are plugged in. Kind of. That’s part of how you could maybe explain we have lower levels of overall satisfaction because we’re kind of always working. I mean, you don’t have to be a big time exec to feel like you’re kind of on the clock all the time. What’s your perspective on that?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:27:25]:
Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I think that is a really great observation. And that as a result, we end up in this place where we’re doing a lot of that mental multitasking that we’re talking about, too. Even when I’m not actively sitting at my computer working, I’m thinking about that call I need to make tomorrow. Or I’m thinking about this idea for this new project I’m working on, or I’m thinking about all of this stuff. And so all of those extra thoughts take up brain space and resources. So it’s a lot harder for my brain to remember where I put my darn phone in the first place to begin with. Yes, yes.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:28:00]:
We end up being less efficient, we make more mistakes, and we’re less productive overall as well.

Wes Moss [00:28:05]:
Well, let’s go back to nature where you don’t have your phones. That’s why there’s no self service out in the woods. Well, that’s not true. SpaceX has satellites now that surround our planet, so you’re going to be able to have great cell service even in the middle of the river that runs through it. And you’ve got full access to iPhone alerts. What about sleep? Tell us about sleep and what that can do for this. Keeping our brain in shape and our efficiency.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:28:35]:
Yeah, sleep is super important. I have joked before that if I could go back and do it all again, I would specialize in sleep because I think it’s so important to our overall brain health and our happiness and our really success in all areas of our life. In terms of your memory. Sleep, we know, is when we consolidate our memories. So if we’re not sleeping, we’re more forgetful. Our brain doesn’t have that time to transfer those memories from short term storage to long term storage during the night. Anyone who’s been sleep deprived for a couple of days because you have a new baby at home or you have a, you know, work deadline, or back in college when you pulled all nighters knows that, you know, it’s hard to get your words out when you’re sleep deprived. You can’t think of what you want to say, you go, uh, uh, uh, uh, more times, you make more mistakes and silly typos, and you’re more forgetful.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:29:29]:
It’s so important for us to get that quality sleep, not just the hours, but the really restorative, deep sleep that our brains need.

Wes Moss [00:29:37]:
So, and again, it’s a, is it, is it, is it stress relieving too, if we are, if we have less sleep, we also have a little, a little high heightened level of stress.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:29:47]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s, again, it’s not giving our bodies the chance they need to recharge when we are more tired, more fatigued during the day, that puts extra stress on our brain, especially because a lot of the strategies that we do to try and compensate aren’t necessarily the best long term strategies, like we drink bottomless pots of coffee or do some of these other strategies that maybe all of us, right, maybe aren’t so great for our brain health and well being.

Wes Moss [00:30:15]:
Socialization. How about that? What’s the impact of socialization on our cognitive abilities and efficiency?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:30:21]:
Our brains are our social animals at their core, right? We are a social species. We evolve to work in groups, even though we all need time alone every once in a while. Our brains really thrive when we have not necessarily a ton of social contacts, but we have those really close social contacts that give us those benefits, even in terms of aging. There’s research that on those longevity studies where we look at how long people live, that individuals who have a close group of social contacts, two or three really close social contacts, tend to live a few years longer on average as well. So not just in terms of our day to day health, it’s really going to help us live longer when we have those good relationships.

Wes Moss [00:31:04]:
It’s a great easy case for making the effort of socialization. How about this? One of the things I loved on your website are, and I guess these are quizzes, informational tools that you talk about on your website around procrastination about productivity. Can you give us an idea to kind of walk us through what you could find on drnicolebuyers.com dot?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:31:34]:
Yeah, yeah. Like you said, lots of great resources on there. There’s a number of workbooks on, you know, why do our brains get into these habits in the first place? Why do our brains love to procrastinate? Why do we love to take on 500 million things when we only have time to do five of them in the day? How do we find this more adaptive, healthy, balanced life where we can feel like we’re thriving at work, but also having a life outside of work or into retirement?

Wes Moss [00:32:00]:
Why do we procrastinate? Can it not just be there’s things I just don’t want to do? Is that really procrastination?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:32:08]:
Yes, I would say there is. Definitely. There’s the stuff you don’t want to do because it’s not fun or it doesn’t feel good. And so we put that stuff off. For me, it’s bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping. I complain about it all the time. I don’t know why.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:32:21]:
I just don’t like doing it, and I resist doing it every single month, and I have to give myself tons of rewards and incentives to get it done. But there is also procrastination that we do. Really, at its core, it’s still because it doesn’t feel good for our brain. Our brains want to be comfortable. They want to feel good. And so we end up procrastinating on things where we’re not sure of the outcome or it’s really outside of our comfort zone or that kind of inner perfectionist, inner critic that a lot of us are prone to says, what if this doesn’t work out? Or what if we’re not good enough or talented enough or whatever enough? And so our brain says, ugh, this doesn’t feel comfortable at all. Let’s put it off. Calling that client back or asking about that raise at work or thinking about my retirement planning, because I don’t want to deal with this.

Wes Moss [00:33:05]:
Well, so you are bringing up, you’re bringing up these longer term. So I guess you’re right. When I think procrastination, I think shorter term things like making the bed or cleaning up the office, little things that we just don’t quite really, they’re not super fun to do. So we kind of procrastinating. Procrastinating. That list builds up. But you’re talking about bigger things in life. I’m not good enough to write a book, so I’m going to procrastinate to do it.

Wes Moss [00:33:34]:
Maybe I’m not going to succeed at a big project that I’ve always kind of wanted to do, but I’m just going to procrastinate because I don’t know if I’ll succeed. So there’s really both of that. What’s an anti procrastination strategy? What’s the ozempic for procrastination?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:33:50]:
Yeah, I’d say it’s make life easier for your brain. Right. So our brain, like I said, at its core, it wants you to stay comfortable doing those little annoying day to day things like making your bed or doing your dishes or making that appointment you’ve been avoiding. Those don’t feel comfortable for your brain. Your brain doesn’t want to do them. They don’t feel good. So we can give ourselves rewards is a really great strategy. Our brains love rewards.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:34:15]:
They make them feel really happy. It doesn’t have to be a huge thing. Thing. I was complaining about my bookkeeping. I always treat myself to a Starbucks grande caramel macchiato every month when I’m done my bookkeeping and just that little incentive, knowing as soon as I’m done this thing I hate doing, I get something fun is enough for my brain. To get going.

Wes Moss [00:34:32]:
So it’s kind of this self. Well, it’s also discipline to not go get a macchiato on a normal day. So you’re depriving yourself. Is that an imaciata you were just drinking?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:34:42]:
Oh, no, that’s just water. This isn’t hard. I’m good with this.

Wes Moss [00:34:48]:
Right, so you’re self imposing something that is a reward for. Gosh, I’m not going to allow myself to do this. Something comfy? Really? What? You’re talking about some comfort until I get three or five of these things done. I like that. So it’s a self reward system. And then similar for productivity. How do you organize and become more productive? I know something you write about.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:35:15]:
Yeah, it is. I think it’s helpful there to keep in mind kind of how our brain has natural limits. One of the things I see a lot that is a big downfall for most of us in terms of productivity is we try to do what our brains aren’t designed to do, like multitasking. We try to do a million things at once, or we try and sit down and say, I’m not leaving my desk today until this project is done. But our brains have limits for how long we can pay attention. They have limits for how much we can think about at one time. And so we end up making life harder for ourselves when we could be making life easier, even something simple like, I always schedule my day in 60 to 90 minutes blocks because that’s what we know is our kind of our sustained attention span. How long we can stay focused on one task at a time and then do something else after that.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:36:03]:
Using a scheduler is a great strategy. A lot of us think we can just keep track of everything in our head. I can keep track of all my appointments. I can keep track of all these things I need to get done. But then we’re forcing our brain to mental multitask. Right? So writing it down, actually putting things in a calendar, planning out our day, it takes off some of that pressure, that mental load for your brain, or.

Wes Moss [00:36:22]:
You’Re not thinking about, you go to a store and you haven’t written down a list, you’re kind of bouncing around to what I was supposed to get, where the list just takes away the processing speed. That’s one less thing you’re processing.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:36:36]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Wes Moss [00:36:37]:
So that’s kind of. So how do you, you do this through? Is outlook, is our calendar enough? Or do you have a, do you have some other app that’s not distracting on your non flip phone that does this for you.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:36:50]:
Nothing fancy yet. Your regular calendar works great. I use Google just because that’s what I have set up with my business. It syncs to my phone, which I like, even though I’m trying not to use my phone all of the time. But at least it’s kind of one system for our calendars. What we don’t want to do is get into multiple calendar systems. I see that for a lot of us, especially when we’re balancing work and life as we have a work calendar, then a home calendar, and then things get double booked or things get forgot. So any way we can make that more efficient by having it all in one place can be a calendar on your wall as well.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:37:24]:
If you want to carry that around, those work great, too.

Wes Moss [00:37:27]:
As we wrap up here, what is the doctor Nicole Byers prescription for maintaining efficiency as we are headed into our later working years, as we get into our retirement years, when we’re doing maybe not no work. A lot of happy retirees do still work in some capacity, but kind of a less work situation. What is your prescription for keeping us mentally strong and efficient?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:37:55]:
Yeah, keep your brain active. Just like we want to keep our bodies active, we want our brains to be doing things that are enjoyable, that are challenging, that work, those mental muscles, and that doesn’t have to be anything complicated or expensive either. Library cards are free or low cost in most cities. There’s great research that regular reading promotes brain health as we age. It’s one of the few things that we see helps lower risk of dementia or Alzheimer’s disease, something we can all do. If you love crosswords or sudoku or puzzles, those are great. If you don’t like them, that’s okay. Find something else that keeps your brain active, something you enjoy doing.

Wes Moss [00:38:37]:
Do audiobooks count or do I have to actually read? Read.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:38:41]:
Yeah, the jury’s out on that one. Our brains still learn best when we read and when we read hard copy, not electronically, actually. Like, getting that hard book from the library is better for our brains compared to.

Wes Moss [00:38:56]:
Wait a minute. That’s something that’s proven. We actually retain more from paper versus a website.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:39:06]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Moss [00:39:08]:
What is that? How? Why?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:39:10]:
Why? Yeah. Good question. It might change. It might change over generations as we get more accustomed to reading electronically. I think it is still, there are still some default systems that our brains just learn better. When we can hold something physically in our hand, it holds our attention more. There’s less distractions. A bunch of those media, even if you’re using something like Kindle, they still have other pop ups and things that probably distract you as well.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:39:37]:
And I don’t know if there’s compelling evidence that audiobooks don’t work. I’m sure if you’re listening to it and you’re paying attention, that’s going to be great for your brain.

Wes Moss [00:39:48]:
And tv doesn’t count, I suspect.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:39:51]:
Yeah, tv’s okay, right? Tv’s a great break every once in a while. I’d say if you’re going to use tv as an activity, make it something engaging so, you know, watching with your family and talking about what you’re watching, rather than just kind of mindlessly zoning in, is a much more cognitively engaging way to watch programs.

Wes Moss [00:40:11]:
And if we get to our nineties, what again can we be looking forward to?

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:40:17]:
Drinking a little bit more, eating a little bit more fatty foods, maybe relaxing a little bit more?

Wes Moss [00:40:24]:
Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. All right. Doctor Nicole Byers. Thank you, Nicole, for being here on the retire Suitor podcast.

Dr. Nicole Byers [00:40:31]:
Thanks for having me. Hey y’all.

Mallory Boggs [00:40:34]:
This is Mallory with the retire Sooner team. Please be sure to rate and subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend. If you have any questions, you can find us@wesmoss.com that’s wesmoss.com dot. You can also follow us on Instagram and YouTube. You’ll find us under the handle Retire Sooner podcast. And now for our show’s disclosure. This information is provided to you as a resource for informational purposes only and is not to be viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal.

Mallory Boggs [00:41:04]:
There is no guaranteed offer that investment return, yield, or performance will be achieved. Stock prices fluctuate, sometimes rapidly and dramatically, due to factors affecting individual companies, particular industries or sectors, or general market conditions for stocks paying dividends. Dividends are not guaranteed and can increase, decrease, or be eliminated without notice. Fixed income securities involve interest rate, credit inflation and reinvestment risks and possible loss of principal. As interest rates rise, the value of fixed income securities falls. Past performance is not in indicative of future results. When considering any investment vehicle, this information is being presented without consideration of the investment objectives, risk tolerance, or financial circumstances of any specific investor and might not be suitable for all investors. Investment decisions should not be based solely on information contained here.

Mallory Boggs [00:41:49]:
This information is not intended to and should not form a primary basis for any investment decision that you may make. Always consult your own legal, tax or investment advisor before making any investment tax, estate or financial planning considerations or decisions. The information contained here is strictly an opinion and it is not known whether the strategies will be successful. The views and opinions expressed are for educational purposes only as of the date of production and may change without notice at any time based on numerous factors such as market and other conditions.